Women in the Military

myself

[MarcoPolo]

I've got a serious question that I need some Freeper help with. I know that in World War II women were able to serve separately from men in the Armed Forces in such services as the WACS and the WAVES. Are there any such women's only corps in our services today? This is an honest question. I have wanted badly to serve my country, but I have almost always felt that women's roles in the military should not be a soldiers but as equally important nurses, intelligence officers, and other support staff. ANY FEMALE SOLDIERS OR VETS READING THIS PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED. I'm genuinely interested in knowing this stuff, so if any Freeper can help I'd be most appreciative.

[ChuckHam]

Then don't believe it. I have no reason to come on here and tell lies. I stand by exactly what I described.

[callthemlikeyouseethem]

Respectfully, 20% of body weight is the standard for training marches. Some guys go above and beyond that standard because of their training and positions (SF, Ranger, Seals, etc). But, you are right, in normal field training, a 200 lb. guy is expected to carry more than a 120 lb. female. Keep in mind, he's not carrying her stuff. JMVHO

[callthemlikeyouseethem]

actually, I may be mistaken about the percentage. It might be 25% body weight for training purposes. I will see if I can find something to clarify it.

Regarding the female prisoners in the Gulf War I:

And of the two women taken prisoner, Army Specialist Melissa Rathburn-Nealy of the 233rd Transportation Company testified that she was treated well by the Iraqis. The second female POW, Maj. Rhonda Cornum, an Army flight surgeon, testified before a presidential commission on women in the military that the Iraqis had sexually molested her.

Cornum went on to serve as a colonel commanding an Army medical unit in Tuzla during the U.S. operation in Bosnia in the mid-1990s. And in a report in the New York Times, she explained her delay in publicly declaring her molestation and the very brief mention the incident received in her book She Went to War: The Rhonda Cornum Story as a "concern" that her mistreatment would be "blown out of proportion and would be used by those who want to keep women out of combat."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/women030114_military.html

[TADSLOS]

Women don't serve in combat roles

Not true. There are female fighter pilots, weapons officers and attack helicopter pilots currently flying combat missions over Iraq delivering death and destruction on Iraqi forces as we pontificate on this topic.

[callthemlikeyouseethem]

LOL... I take the "mean" that was supposed to be "men" as a freudian slip...:D It doesn't make any difference. Nobody ever carried my stuff, nor did they carry the stuff of other females I served with. It was for training purposes only. Even the front line infantry (male) troops don't carry everything they need everywhere they go. That is why there are support units, after all. What is the difference if a female or a male issues your ammo or chem gear? As long as you have it...JMVHO

[callthemlikeyouseethem]

BTW, since we seem to have a disagreement, how much weight does a "copter pilot" carry on a mission?

[callthemlikeyouseethem]

:) My hubby is a sweetie too, but he is SF (ret) and still considers my time in service as less important than his (actually, I don't doubt that) We just had different jobs. I remember the first time he described some female admin SGT as a "leg" (not jump qualified). She didn't need to jump out of a plane to take care of his administrative needs. Me, being a "leg" gave him the look. He knows that most SF guys were too busy to type and forward his stuff..:D

[Republic If You Can Keep It]

women have faster reflexes

And your source is........

???

[MarcoPolo]

Let me make myself clear. I'm a woman. I've always wanted to serve my country in some way, but not as a soldier. It's not that I'm afraid of the danger, it's just that I don't feel that I could physically be adequate for the job. I would like to serve in a support type role, but I don't know if any such exclusively support corps for women still exist.

[Iscool]

women have faster reflexes

And your source is........ ???

Cuz every time I attempt to pinch a cheek, I get a slap across the other one before I reach the mark...

[Check6]

IMHO, fems in uniform are a huge PITA. They benefit from a double standard weighed heavily in their favor. They are a distraction. They are dangerous. The destroy the warrior mentality. They have destroyed the service academies. Send them home.

[Caesar Soze]

Caveat: I am not a recruiter or a BTDT, and what follows is my barely-educated HO.

A soldier is an enlisted or commissioned person serving in the United States Army. Members of the WAC are and were properly called 'soldiers,' and went through basic training very similar to that of their male counterparts.

If you want to put on a uniform and serve your country in the Army today, you go to Basic Combat Training like everyone else (except direct commission officers, I guess), but you train with men and women. If you don't like male privates, join the Marines. After Basic, you go on to advanced training according to the Army's needs or whatever's on your contract. Then you can be a 71L or whatever.

Given that WACs in WWII were trained similar to men, exposed to significant stress and danger, and required to work alongside men, I think the lesson of WAC is that a separate women's corps is not needed. If you could've been a WAC in WWII, you can be a soldier today.

[CorpsVet]

History tells us that the first licensed woman pilot in the United States was Harriet Quimby in 1911. History forgets to tell us that Katherine Wright, sister of the Wright brothers, had as much to do with the first flight at Kittyhawk as did her brothers. Women flew airplanes before they could vote - but not in the U.S. military!

During WWI Princess Eugenie Shakhovskaya and Princess Sophie Alexandrovna Dolgorunaya were among the first women to become military pilots in Europe and though American women pilots volunteered, none were taken seriously. We all know the story of the gallant WASP pilots - women who flew every airplane made during WWII - including an experimental jet at 350 mph at 35,000 feet, (flown by Ann Baumgartner in 1944) - yet were not considered military pilots until decades later.


Jacqueline Cochran broke the sound barrier in 1953, set speed and altitude records and lobbied for the use of women pilots in the military - to no avail. Civilian women were flying over the North Pole, around the world, and through the sound barrier but until the '70s the military resisted having women pilots.

The Navy, not the Air Force, took the first step - in 1974 six women earned their wings and became the first Naval aviators. The Army followed suit in 1974 and trained female helicopter pilots.

The Air Force caught up in 1976 and admitted women to the pilot training program. But there was a catch. By virtue of exisiting policies, their flying was limited to non-combat. Military women pilots would not be flying combat missions.
At least not yet.


The first ten female officers to graduate
from Air Force Undergraduate Pilot Training
- T-38- Williams AFB, Arizona.
1977. Dept. of Defense Photo.

Although the military finally trained women pilots the services still played games with gender quotas, the pilot slots, combat exclusion laws and the type aircraft women were allowed to fly. From 1976 to 1993 women pilots were kept out of the cockpits of combat aircraft - in actual combat. Even though women aviators flew during Panama, Grenada and Desert Storm their presence was somehow "excluded" from combat records. Not until 1993 were women allowed to fly combat aircraft.

In the Air Force today women comprise more than 300 pilots, 100 navigators and over 600 enlisted aircrew members, but only a select few are combat pilots - the slots are still quietly manipulated.

(And we all know that when a female fighter or bomber pilot does something "not in the best interests of the service" it makes magazine covers, film at eleven, headlines for righteous ranters and fodder for the tabloids. But when male pilots deep six a 60 million dollar F-14 or two -or four - or more - it never seems to get a mention. Same story with "inappropriate behavior" - generals who intimidate women are allowed to retire with full benefits.)

The first woman pilot in the United States flew in 1911 - it took the military 65 years to recognize and train women as pilots and another seventeen years to permit them to invade the sacrosanct area of combat aircraft. Gratefully the tide is turning. An all women Air Force Fly Over team was present at the dedication of the Women's Memorial in 1997. A female Air Force Colonel - Eileen Collins - was the first woman to command a space shuttle mission in 1999. Air Force B-52's and Navy Tomcats are being flown by women.

Finally - the sky is not the limit for women in the military!

During Desert Storm the first woman pilot gave her life while flying in a combat zone. Major Marie T. Rossi died at age 32 on March 1, 1991, when the Chinook helicopter she was piloting crashed near her base in northern Saudia Arabia. The unit she commanded was among the very first American units to cross into enemy held territory flying fuel and ammunition to the rapidly advancing 101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions. Major Rossi is buried in Arlington Cemetery where her simple epitaph there reads "First Female Combat Commander To Fly into Battle."


Another of the first American woman to fly in combat in the '90s was Lt Col.Martha McSally, ranked as the top female Air Force pilot. Lt Col McSally was among the first women trained by the Air Force as a fighter pilot. During a 1995-96 tour of duty in Kuwait, she became the first woman in military history to fly a combat sortie in a fighter aircraft. She also flew more than 100 combat hours on an A-10 Warthog attack plane over Iraq in the mid-1990s, and served as a flight commander and trainer of combat pilots.

In 1993 when Secretary of Defense Les Aspin opened combat aviation to women, including enlisted female aircrew members, allowing women to fly combat missions, opportunities opened even more for women pilots and crew members. With these new opportunities female pilot numbers are increasing steadily with more and more women completing pilot training.



USAF Fighter Pilot Carrie Howell


Today, in the war against the Taliban and al-Qaida targets in Afghanistan, women are filling aircrew positions as bomber pilots, navigators, tanker pilots, and weapons officers - those who specialize in operating in flight arms - loadmasters, and varied officer and enlisted aircrew positions.

[Jhoffa_]

I'm sure there are nurses and support staff.

If you want to serve however, don't fool yourself into thinking you must join the military to do it.

Become an EMT, or a nurse. Customs agent or harbor patrol, DEA, FEMA, etc.

I am sure there's many ways for you to serve our country in a way that you are comfortable with.