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Mass desertions weaken Iraqi defences
Times of London ^ | 3/19/03 | David Sharrock in Northern Kuwait

Posted on 03/19/2003 10:26:43 AM PST by jimbo123

Masses of Iraqi soldiers are deserting and senior members of President Saddam Hussein's ruling family circle are defecting as the countdown to a British and US invasion reaches its final hours.

In northern Iraq, on the border with Kurdistan, up to three-quarters of some Iraqi regiments have already fled.

In the mainly Shia Muslim south, Kuwaiti border guards are having to turn Iraqi soldiers back - telling them that they must wait until an attack begins before they can surrender.

And in a highly significant development in Baghdad a half-brother of President Saddam, who is regarded as the dictator's closest adviser, has fled in the past week to Syria.

Sab'awi Ibrahim Hasan Al-Tikriti, who is regarded in the United States as a possible war criminal, has sought refuge in Damascus. His flight from Baghdad suggests "fractures developing within the regime", according to a secret-level intelligence report which The Times has seen.

The reports, which are updated at least four times daily and distributed among senior British and US officers paint a picture of the dying hours of Saddam's 30-year iron grip on Iraq as it finally and dramatically falls apart, even before the British and US invasion gets underway.

"We are looking at wholesale desertions in some areas," said an intelligence officer.

"In the southern area, where there are six Iraqi divisions, fifty per cent of their officers are planning to surrender once the campaign opens.

"There's a lot of talk of waiting until the war starts, because of the danger to the officers' families. It's also been expressed that most want a quick and sudden or surprise attack, so that they have the excuse for not putting up greater resistance."

So poor is morale that Saddam ordered the deployment of Iraqi special forces officers in some areas to prevent regular officers from deserting.

The last report of such action was received within the last two days.

Relying on human intelligence - British and US special forces already within Iraq who are observing Iraqi military movements as well as establishing contacts - and covert aerial surveillance, it is estimated that 73 per cent of the regular Iraqi army in the south of the country has already made up its mind to surrender to British and US troops.

In one dramatic example, the reports note that a US "psy ops" - psychological operation - unit dropped leaflets on Iraq's 51st Mechanised Division on March 9 and March 10.

Four days later, 20 per cent of the division had deserted and was no longer in the area. "Many of those who have already gone are reporting that the rest are preparing to surrender," said an intelligence officer.

In northern Iraq between 43 and 75 per cent of regular soldiers, depending upon their regiment, have already fled. Iraqi tribal leaders in the region have also abandoned Saddam and defected to the Kurds in the Northern No-Fly Zone.

Two days ago in the town of Chamchamal, 50 kilometres (31 miles) from the Iraqi border with Turkey, soldiers attempted to surrender to the Kurdish civilian population. They were fired upon by their own side, causing civilians to scatter.

In and around Baghdad the desertion rate is lower, but even among Saddam's elite Republican Guard divisions - whose loyalty to their leader has been unquestioned until now - 23 per cent have deserted.

On the Iraq-Kuwait border, where British and US forces are now massing, Saddam's unwilling soldiers are being turned back on an hourly basis.

"We are seeing Iraqis trying to come across the border, saying they want to surrender, but we are having to turn them back and telling them that they must wait until the war begins," said an intelligence officer.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 19mar2003; endgameapproaches; freeiraq; gulfwarii; iraq; iraqideserters; iraqwar; isurrender; topplesaddam; warlist
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Just heard on KFI AM radio, they are removing American flags from all of our tanks. Anyone know the reason for this strange move?

My guess would be so the force appears more of a coalition and less of an American force. Yeah, it's a stretch, but...

41 posted on 03/19/2003 10:59:57 AM PST by Coop
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To: jimbo123
I say we feed 'em of course, but they should be made to carry supplies, dig latrines etc.

...at gunpoint of course.
42 posted on 03/19/2003 11:00:28 AM PST by CMClay
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To: smith288; Henchman
24.995% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

13% of all posts with stats in them are usually correct or not.

Yes but 52% of that 13% of statistcs that are right (or not) have been researched (or have).
43 posted on 03/19/2003 11:06:12 AM PST by Live free or die
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To: Coop
LOL.....
44 posted on 03/19/2003 11:06:17 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Live free or die
Yes but 52% of that 13% of statistcs that are right (or not) have been researched (or have).

Ahhh, but the mean of the 52% of the 13% does or doesnt coincide with the numbers that didnt combine with the average....

You know?

45 posted on 03/19/2003 11:12:59 AM PST by smith288 (Visit my gallery http://www.ejsmithweb.com/fr/hollywood/hollywood.php)
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To: CatoRenasci; JasonC
I agree. The Romans were scary, but their enemies did not have a habit of running away (as far as I recall). On the other hand, I do believe that the Mongols had a policy of approaching cities and announcing that the inhabitants had two choices: 1) surrender the city peacefully and join the Mongol empire. 2) Everyone dies.

Since the Mongols were willing and able to enforce the second option, word got around and some locations chose option 1. I admit I know of no specifics, and this could be "urban legend" but I've seen this cited in multiple books.

46 posted on 03/19/2003 11:13:27 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: jimbo123
In the mainly Shia Muslim south, Kuwaiti border guards are having to turn Iraqi soldiers back - telling them that they must wait until an attack begins before they can surrender.

Ah, I see we've already sent in the lawyers...

47 posted on 03/19/2003 11:13:54 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: smith288
73% eh? Not 74 or 72?... ;)

Actually it's 72.57% but due to rounding ... oops, here comes another one. Forget it.

48 posted on 03/19/2003 11:14:38 AM PST by sphinx
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To: jimbo123
why do the surrendering iraqi soldiers have to be turned back

if they want to defect why not let them and gather all the intelligence possible from them

i question these reports
49 posted on 03/19/2003 11:16:58 AM PST by tru_degenerate (that which is hidden will eventually come to light)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Mongols and fortified cities, yes. Romans and field armies, no.
50 posted on 03/19/2003 11:17:32 AM PST by JasonC
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To: smith288
Exactly...and by that we can tell the earth to be bannana shaped.
51 posted on 03/19/2003 11:21:07 AM PST by Live free or die
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To: Joe Hadenuf
LOL.....

That was supposed to be a serious hypothesis.

52 posted on 03/19/2003 11:23:30 AM PST by Coop
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To: jimbo123; All
Just watching FOX and they showed downtown Iraq - there were a couple of Iraqi army people in a sort-of foxhole with their rifles. However, these guys were in their DRESS UNIFORMS ...??

With a war about 12-24 hours away, wouldn't you have your people dressed for battle - not a parade ...??

Very interesting! And ... this thread is such great news - these people have already experienced all the hell man can visit upon man - and I surely hope those most wicked will be the ones to lose their lives.

God bless our troops!
53 posted on 03/19/2003 11:24:09 AM PST by CyberAnt ( -> -> -> Oswego!!)
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To: smith288
73% eh? Not 74 or 72?... ;)

Exactly (so to speak).

Any time I see such precise estimates the BS meter starts to jump into the red zone.

54 posted on 03/19/2003 11:24:12 AM PST by G L Tirebiter
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To: G L Tirebiter
Just remember that 50% percent of the posts are above average
55 posted on 03/19/2003 11:29:21 AM PST by 2oakes (US citizen, ex-brit, and VERY glad of it)
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To: jimbo123
Let's hope they're not using the "surrender" ploy to infiltrate American lines.
56 posted on 03/19/2003 11:35:10 AM PST by Attillathehon (Just got this story in my email.)
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To: CyberAnt
Where is downtown Iraq?
57 posted on 03/19/2003 11:36:29 AM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: smith288
73% eh? Not 74 or 72?... ;)

well, 94.37639501% of all statistics are made up.

58 posted on 03/19/2003 11:36:42 AM PST by js1138
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To: smith288
the mean of the 52% of the 13% does or doesnt coincide with the numbers that didnt combine with the average....

You would do well to remember that 100% of the data fall within an infinite number of standard deviations on either side of the mean.

59 posted on 03/19/2003 11:37:14 AM PST by Myrnick (eee, I wuz awl 'ungry like)
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To: jimbo123
"We are seeing Iraqis trying to come across the border, saying they want to surrender, but we are having to turn them back and telling them that they must wait until the war begins," said an intelligence officer

This is surreal
Like some kind of game
You can't surrender until the war starts
I don'r know whether to laugh or cry
60 posted on 03/19/2003 11:37:46 AM PST by uncbob ( building tomorrow)
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