LA Rabbi Asks Mel Gibson to Reconsider Jesus Film

PS: We share allot of common history, and we for damn sure have allot of common enemies.

It will never be that way. Scripturally, it's already foreordained.

When you have people like the pope making deals with Arafat, and signing covenats with him, you can look for trouble.

CRUCIFIXTION was a ROMAN method of execution. Employed throughout the Roman empire at the time. If Jesus did die this way(and I'm not saying he didn't) can you imagine why ROMAN Catholics, would have a conflict here. Perhaps they weould be eager to lay the blame for this murder at the feet of the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem?

Sorry Rabbi, I'll stick with the Biblical account. I'm sure he's concerned there will be Anti-Semite backlash. I think people need to consider that anywhere Christ would have lived on this planet, he would have been rejected as "The Christ". I don't see this as a Jewish issue, but I acknowledge there are some just looking for a good excuse.

Go Mel.

It should be noted that there's about to be a hit piece on Mel by the New York Times. It sounds as if Mel's 85 year old father is a bit of a racist. Don't go overboardon that. I have no direct knowledge and only saw an interview on O'Rielly where Mel was discussin the NYT article to appear Sunday. Evidenty they are going to try to paint Mel as a bit of a racist too, mostly by inuendo if I understood correctly.

I guess some kid who's father owns property by a religious org set up by Gibson, is on a little bit of a vendetta. Sadly the NYT didn't ash-can the piece. It appears the kid weaseled a two day interview from Mel's dad. As I said he's 85. He's a little loopie and the reporter is going to try to make mileage off of him.

It's unfortunate.

Thought some of you might want to be looking for that article on Sunday. BTW, I'm almost certain it was the NYT, but there is a possibility that I'm wrong. I saw the report on Thursday evening and didn't take notes.

".....The Jews are not God's chosen people because of holiness."......

Thank goodness somebody knows something! The Jews were "chosen" to reveal the Oracles of God. They can go to Heaven or Hell just as anybody else can. The ones that go to Heaven freely admit that God sent His Son as a sacrifice for their sin. The OT saints believed God WOULD send a Redeemer for them. NT saints believe Jesus was that sacrifice. No other name can save you.

As far as who killed Jesus, Jesus allowed Himself to be killed. He gave His life willingly, none could take it from Him. If you want to look at it in a spiritual way, I killed Him! If I'm not guilty of His murder, then I am self-rightious and don't need His blood. Since I freely admit that I'm a sinner, I need His blood for my forgivness. This is the silliest argument for Christians to make I've ever heard, fighting over the guilt of the Jews or Romans. Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the Earth. His mission on Earth was to die. If He never performed a miracle or raised the dead, He would still be the "Lamb of God." No man could ever have taken His life if He had not given it.

As far as being anti Jew for a Christian, we are "adopted" as joint heirs to Jesus. We were "grafted" in. We are spiritual brothers to the Jews.

God gave us the Bible to try to communicate spiritual concepts to spiritualy dead people. As Christians, we are supposed to look at things the way God does because He is Spirit. If we argue over these kinds of issues, you totally miss the point He is trying to make. God raised the dead to demonstrate He is the Resurection. He healed the sick to show that we are sick with sin and need a physician. He made the blind and deaf to see and hear because we are spirtualy blind and deaf until we have His Spirit. If He just wanted to perform miracles, He could have done that from His throne in Heaven and He could have healed everyone at once, not just a few. Every line in the Bible has a spiritual meaning, we just look at the surface and miss out. Jesus willingly gave His life, nobody took it.

Plus, from my reading of history, the condemnation of Jesus came from the elite in Jerusalem who by that time had become highly secularized or hellenized by their three centuries of contact with Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empires. This elite were Jews who had pretty much abandoned the traditional teachings of Judaism for more "cosmopolitan" cultural values.

Roman Catholics have no conflict here and don’t need to “ shift “ the blame for this murder to the feet of the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem.
Here it is in the Jewish leaders own words.

Who Was Jesus?
http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

"Christian Anti-Semitism" - Kind of like hating your left arm because your right-handed. lol!

Our faiths and fates are inexorably entwined. Still, it's amusing to see how many people hate their left or right arm. *grin*

At any rate, those of true faith recognize that our battle is with the "enemy". As things are right now, I don't think we've ever witnessed such a large and coordinated attack by those who would destroy both Christians and Jews if left unchecked.

Suffice to say we need to stand together.

Discussing his film in a recent TV interview, Gibson was asked whether his account might particularly upset Jews. He said, "It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth."

Mr. Gibson, you are very naive believing you are the one telling the truth. Read over the four stories in the New Testament referring to Jesus' death. They don't match, and the story tellers lived almost 2000 years closer to the Jesus' time than you do. The only truth about this movie, is your intentions to make money. Your TV interview proves so. Don't, for a second, believe that you are, regardless of your conservative views, whatever that means, called by God to revel the truth. I sincerely hope that you loose every single dime you invest into it, and you will, and you deserve to. By any chance, aren't you trying just to derail the focus of us Christians, from the real problems of the Church today, so we turn our rage at the Jews. It will not work, and your pact with the Satan, whomever that is, will fail. At the end, you will lose your soul to him, as many have before you. Do you dare to make a true movie about Mohamed, or you are not financed to do so....... Or are you scared?

If you want to make a movie about Jesus, try about his teachings. There are thousands of positive messages that are needed now more than ever to be told, messages that will help us maintain our sanity in this crazy world, messages that will prepare us and help us, and guide us to survive in the new world that is shaping before our eyes. The topic you are choosing is the dark side of Jesus life, and believe me, every amateur can play a roll of a sufferer as depicted by the passion story. What is the big deal, you just roll your eyes toward the heaven, spray your face with some ketchup, and have your stunt actor walk the way with a heavy cross.

You see, I am a Christian, and I have yet to find a Christian who is telling the truth. I don't believe you are the one, no after all the terror movies you played so eagerly. You are a joke! You are an actor, you are celebrity, you are greedy, you are.......

You see, I am a Christian, and I have yet to find a Christian who is telling the truth . . .

Is this a confession?

By any chance, aren't you trying just to derail the focus of us Christians, from the real problems of the Church today, so we turn our rage at the Jews. It will not work, and your pact with the Satan, whomever that is, will fail. At the end, you will lose your soul to him, as many have before you.

You see, I am a Christian, and I have yet to find a Christian who is telling the truth.

You found me, and it's the truth when I say you need to relax and go to bed.

You've obviously got too much emotionally invested in this issue.

Your second post in as many months is this?

Is this a confession?

Of course. We are all sinners, aren't we?

Damn you're nosy

Yes I is..

CRUCIFIXTION was a ROMAN method of execution.

True enough, although the remains of crucified victims have been found throughout the ancient world, among many different civilizations.

The fact is that both the Romans and the local Jews had ample reasons to want to be rid of Jesus. For the Romans, he was a political troublemaker and they wouldn't think twice about executing someone for this. For the Jewish establishment, he was a religious troublemaker, but it was easier to hand him over to the Romans for disposal than it was to conduct a contentious trial over blasphemy charges, especially one that they might well lose (Jesus had already shown his talent for debate with other rabbis).

Like white Americans, for instance. No one would believe they should be penalized because years before, other Americans held black people in involuntary servitude.

Yeah, right. Unfortunately, there's stupidity all over, SB.

From what I understand, Gibson's reach for historical accuracy has all the actors speaking in their native languages: the Romans speak Latin and the Jews speak Hebrew and Aramaic with no subtitles.

I may have been misinformed, but I wouldn't worry about too many people even seeing the movie.

A Physician Testifies About the Crucifixion
by Dr. C. Truman Davis
About a decade ago, reading Jim Bishop's The Day Christ Died, I realized that I had for years taken the Crucifixion more or less for granted -- that I had grown callous to its horror by a too easy familiarity with the grim details and a too distant friendship with our Lord. It finally occurred to me that, though a physician, I didn't even know the actual immediate cause of death. The Gospel writers don't help us much on this point, because crucifixion and scourging were so common during their lifetime that they apparently considered a detailed description unnecessary. So we have only the concise words of the Evangelists: "Pilate, having scourged Jesus, delivered Him to them to be crucified -- and they crucified Him."

I have no competence to discuss the infinite psychic and spiritual suffering of the Incarnate God atoning for the sins of fallen man. But it seemed to me that as a physician I might pursue the physiological and anatomical aspects of our Lord's passonate some detail. What did the body of Jesus of Nazareth actually endure during those hours of torture?

This led me first to a study of the practice of crucifixion itself; that is, torture and execution by fixation to a cross. I am indebted to many who have studied this subject in the past, and especially to a contemporary colleague, Dr. Pierre Barbet, a French surgeon who has done exhaustive historical and experimental research and has written extensively on the subject.

Apparently, the first known practice of crucifixion was by the Persians. Alexander and his generals brought it back to the Mediterranean world -- to Egypt and to Carthage. The Romans apparently learned the practice from the Carthaginians and (as with almost everything the Romans did) rapidly developed a very high degree of efficiency and skill at it. A number of Roman authors (Livy, Cicer, Tacitus) comment on crucifixion, and several innovations, modifications, and variations are described in the ancient literature.

For instance, the upright portion of the cross (or stipes) could have the cross-arm (or patibulum) attached two or three feet below its top in what we commonly think of as the Latin cross. The most common form used in our Lord's day, however, was the Tau cross, shaped like our T. In this cross the patibulum was placed in a notch at the top of the stipes. There is archeological evidence that it was on this type of cross that Jesus was crucified.

Without any historical or biblical proof, Medieval and Renaissance painters have given us our picture of Christ carrying the entire cross. But the upright post, or stipes, was generally fixed permanently in the ground at the site of execution and the condemned man was forced to carry the patibulum, weighing about 110 pounds, from the prison to the place of execution.

Many of the painters and most of the sculptors of crucifixion, also show the nails through the palms. Historical Roman accounts and experimental work have established that the nails were driven between the small bones of the wrists (radial and ulna) and not through the palms. Nails driven through the palms will strip out between the fingers when made to support the weight of the human body. The misconception may have come about through a misunderstanding of Jesus' words to Thomas, "Observe my hands." Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the wrist as part of the hand.

A titulus, or small sign, stating the victim's crime was usually placed on a staff, carried at the front of the procession from the prison, and later nailed to the cross so that it extended above the head. This sign with its staff nailed to the top of the cross would have given it somewhat the characteristic form of the Latin cross.

But, of course, the physical passion of the Christ began in Gethsemane. Of the many aspects of this initial suffering, the one of greatest physiological interest is the bloody sweat. It is interesting that St. Luke, the physician, is the only one to mention this. He says, "And being in Agony, He prayed the longer. And His sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground."

Every ruse (trick) imaginable has been used by modern scholars to explain away this description, apparently under the mistaken impression that this just doesn't happen. A great deal of effort could have been saved had the doubters consulted the medical literature. Though very rare, the phenomenon of Hematidrosis, or bloody sweat, is well documented. Under great emotional stress of the kind our Lord suffered, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can break, thus mixing blood with sweat. This process might well have produced marked weakness and possible shock...

More here http://www.konnections.com/Kcundick/crucifix.html

"talent for debate" it says he read their thoughts.

Who did this religious bunch demand to be released in place of Christ? Christ never sinned but what did this character do?

Based upon what has been posted through out, think another reading of who, what, when, and where about the death of Christ is called for, let the "WORD" speak for its self.

After all it is written, that Christ would be a stumbling block for many. Little late in that hour glass of time to be worried about offending man. "It is written", "have you not read?" "I have foretold you all things."