Missouri Cherokee Tribes proclaim Jewish Heritage

Christians Unite dot com ^ | February 7, 2003 | Editorial Staff

[ohmage]

So? You think this guy's practice just started overnight?

http://www.torahview.com/bris/

[blam]

9,400 year old Spirit Cave Man was found in a cave in Nevada. He is also the oldest mummy ever found in the Americas. See the resemblance to Kennewick Man.

[Quix]

I try to reserve my hate for satan and his cohorts.

Billdo and Shrillary do test that resolve at times.

Hating the willfully ignorant could keep one extremely busy.

Children and the mentally challenged can be easy to love. Living anxious for nothing can be very attractive.

Thanks for an informative reply.

[Spunky]

The DNA analysis on Kennewick Man was officially declared 'undetermined.' Unofficially Chatters gives a 'rough' rundown of the DNA that was obtained and Ainu at 23% was the highest.

You are correct. I couldn't remember Ainu.

[drstevej]

***Equal parts Cherokee & Sioux. ***

That makes you part Indian and part lawyer!

[frosty snowman]

The language before the Tower of Babel was not Hebrew, nor was it even Judaic-based. That started in the time of Abraham who came along some time after the Tower.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

When the Cherokees were forcibly removed to Oklahoma many of them later intermarried with the incoming white settlers.
When the US government started a registration of the indians many people, ashamed of their indian ancestery refused to enroll.
When the government started giving the enrolled indians MONEY everyone in Oklahoma suddenly "discovered" indian ancestery and claimed to have a "jen-u-wine chero-kee indian prin-cess" as a grandmother.
Now, several indian groups in Missouri and the Ketowa Cherokees in Arkansas want recognition from the government that they are true indians. This means government checks, land set asides, freedom from state laws and CASINOS! What are the old jokes about jews and money?

[CARepubGal]

Would that be Blood Atonement? Gary Gilmore wanted to be shot due to this particular Mormon teaching (his mom was a very dysfunctional Mormon). Most modern LDS do not discuss this topic much (tends to really get a less than positive reaction for some reason). Polygamists do use this as a threat according to Tapestry of Polygamy.

[Quix]

Yes, I think that's what they call it.

Interesting. Didn't know that about Gilmore.

I can imagine how popular is to talk about. Especially if you're a Jack Mormon amongst a bunch of rabid TRUE BELIEVERS.

[Grig]

"The Mormans have believed the Indians to be the lost tribe of Israel for a long time."

Just to go into some detail on that...

We belive that about 600 years before Christ a group of Isrealites (from the tribe of Joseph) were lead by God out of the Holy Land and to the americas. After they got there, they divided into two civilizations that were frequently at war with eachother. In about 400AD, both civiization pretty much destroyed themselves in a brutal war. We claim that at least some native american tribes are decendants of the survivors of that war, although no specific tribe is identified as being direct descendants of them.

The Book of Mormon (a record made the prophets of God among these people) mentions other groups being there before them, and arriving after them as well (and also group of them leaving on exploration trips and never being heard from again), so although this claim by the Cherokee doesn't directly relate to the civilizations that are the focus of the Book of Mormon, it certainly is supportive of the Book of Mormon being just what it claims to be.

[CARepubGal]

Bessie Gilmore was born and raised in Provo Utah and did teach her version of being Mormon to her 4 boys. The youngest child Mikal is a writer who had some interesting (and sometimes horriffic) stories from childhood. I would have to say Bessie does NOT represent conventional Mormons but does speak for the folks who wear tinfoil.

[Grig]

"What does the DNA say?"

DNA is very limited when it comes to trying to determine who all your ancestors are. After nearly 2000 years of being appart I expect it would be nearly impossible to find a strong genetic link between current day Cherokee and Jews.

[Black Agnes]

You seen this one yet??!

[Grig]

"Didn't Joseph Smith also say the natives here were white, and were turned dark-skinned by God when they refused to accept Him?"

When they arrived in the americas, one group rebelled against God and made it a point to teach their kids to hate and kill the other group. God made their skin darken so that the other group could tell them apart and keep separate from them for their own safety.

"Because that don't exactly follow modern science... "

Neither does walking on water or thousands of other things in the scriptures. That's why we call them miracles.

[Grig]

"He also taught that some people's sins are soooooo bad that even Christ's blood isn't good enough to cover them [WHAT BLASPHEMY!]. "

Is it also blasphemy when Christ teaches it?

Matt 12:32 ...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall NOT be aforgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

"And that therefore, the super guilty people have to shed their own blood for their own sins. "

I think you should read this before making such accusations:
http://www.shields-research.org/General/blood_atonement.htm

[Grig]

"by someone convicted a number of times of defrauding farmers . . . "

The only thing he was ever convicted of was of casting out an evil spirit. The judge then noted there was no law against it and released him.

"telling farmers he had a secret map found on each of the farmer's property . . ."

Didn't happen.

"Then there's the fun story from the father of my best man at my wedding . . ."

A 4th or 5th hand story with no confirmation. Come on, if you want to attack someone's religion with rumours and hearsay, take it somewhere else.

[Spirited]

"Unofficially Chatters gives a 'rough' rundown of the DNA that was obtained and Ainu at 23% was the highest."

Thank you for the post, Blam. That 23% leaves a great deal of "wiggle room" to come up with verifiable truth.

Spunky, I deeply appreciate knowing from someone on spot what happened with regard to the destroyed archealogical site. (I love FR for that.) I was utterly enraged when that happened and still cannot think about it calmly.

We have so many varied "vested interests" resident in diverse groups that claim authority in the matter that the struggle to get at or verify anything other than what was supposed, surmised or dreamt up in the past is almost as impossible as getting into the next galaxy.

Academians who have written books, if proven wrong will loose revenue. Schools at which they have taught will lose prestige. People groups will have to alter their deeply and reverently held belief systems and perhaps give up their tightly clutched benefits or privileges. Scientists would need to be able to admit that their conclusions, calculations could have erred in some way and politicians might need to give up some group manipulation advantages for any headway to be made on this entire subject world-wide.

That is more pride to be excised than is humanly feasible. One has to assume that only a G_d Almighty could achieve it.
I'm willing to watch.

[Grig]

"Joseph Smith's "ideas" were already in circulation when he plagiarized most of the Book of Mormon"

That idea was discredited a long, long time ago.

http://library.lds.org/library/lpext.dll/ArchMagazines/Ensign/1976.htm/ensign%20september%201976.htm/i%20have%20a%20question.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0#LPTOC2

[Antoninus]

Funny how an uneduated farm kid, who is accused of starting a 'cult' has been (or is being) validated by modern science.

You're kidding, right? Validated? The claims made in this article are beyond tenuous. It was written for pure shock value. If there is real, hard, genetic or linguistic evidence of such a connection, let them present it. Explorers and pseudo-scientists have been blathering about the Indians being the "lost tribes of Israel" almost from the time of Columbus. No direct or indirect link has EVER been established.

The closest anyone has come is the genetic link between the mysterious Melungeons of Appalachia and Mediterranean peoples. But there's no indication that they're Jewish--probably Portuguese.

[Grig]

"We're not directly doomed because Adam transgressed. We're doomed when our inherited sinful nature is knowingly and willfully expressed by our actions."

Then you agree with us on that, wonderful. Sadly it is very common for orthodox christian faiths to teach otherwise.