Gov. Granholm again publicly defies Church: advocates recognition for same sex couples

Catholics are free to disagree with non-dogmatic statements by the Pope or bishops (like various anti-war or anti-death penalty statements). We are not free to dissent from Church dogma, which is what Ms. Granholm is doing, in embracing the slaughter of the unborn and promoting sodomy as life-affirming.

The odds of her actually being excommunicated for this are (apparently) almost nil. This is largely a theoretical discussion.

These "Catholic Zeros" should be helt accountable as should granholm and gray-out.

They will be. Trust me, they will be. We all will be.

"I see you as a person who is admonishing a fellow parishioner that her path will lead her to the devil."

If that is what Siobhan is doing, then she is being perfectly faithful to our Lord's injunction:

Matthew 18:15 "But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven."

By campaigning for the Cardinal to get up off his fat duff and exercise his authority which has been given for this very kind of purpose, Catholics are only following Jesus' command that those who will not hear the Church should be put out. Jesus intended the apostles to use the power of excommunication otherwise why would He have given it to them?

This politician is willfully refusing to hear the Church after much protest and is causing grave scandal by receiving communion when she is pro-murder and pro-sodomy. Neither position is compatible with faith in Christ and receiving communion in His Church. Any priest who gives her communion should also question his own standing before God because he is permitting sacrilege.

"your love for Christ's Church, alone. Not the denominations of men."

The Catholic Church is Christ's Church alone and has been from 33AD. It is only those who left that created "denominations". We do not recognise "denominations" in Christ's Church.

THIS WEB SITE HAS THE DEFINITION OF EXCUMMUNICATION AND THE PROCESS IN CASE ANYONE WANT'S TO READ IT.
IT IS LONG BUT MAYBE IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS SHOULD BE READ. I BELIEVE THAT IT WILL BE SOMETHING IN THE NEAR FUTURE THAT WILL BE APPEARING MORE AND MORE....

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

http://www.stopgranholm.com/dissent/granholm4.htm

Cardinal's Office
1234 Washington Blvd.
CH - 7th Floor
Detroit, MI 48226-1875
Office: (313) 237-5816
Facsimile: (313) 237-4642

Contact the Governor:

http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0,1607,7-168-21995-57932--,00.html

http://www.cathfam.org/abort/GranholmData.pdf

Sign Petition:

http://www.cathfam.org/cfexcom/Excom.html

Just saw this post. Beyond ironic that she would entertain such a proposal on Valentine's Day. It's gonna be a long 4 years here in MI.

Beam me up, St. Valentine!

Contact the Governor--Click Here

The Executive Office is currently in a transition period, as Governor Granholm settles into the Governor's Office. If you have views or concerns that you would like to share with the Governor that do not require a response, please fill out the electronic message form below. Should you need a response from the Governor or a member of her Executive staff, please contact her office via mail, fax, or phone.
Thank you for visiting the State of Michigan web site.

Regular Correspondence to Your Governor

To contact the Governor, you may use the following means:

U.S. MAIL
Governor Jennifer Granholm
P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909

PHONE
(517) 335-7858

FAX
(517) 335-6863

Southeastern Michigan Office
3022 W. Grand Blvd.
Cadillac Place, Suite 14-150
Detroit, MI 48202
(313) 456-0010

Northern Michigan Office
1504 West Washington, Suite B
Marquette, MI 49855
(906) 228-2850

Washington D.C. Office
444 North Capitol Street, Northwest
Hall of the States, Suite 411
Washington, D.C. 20001
(202) 624-5840

LOL! You refer to Luther as a fiend. Perhaps thou should check out the history of the Roman Catholic Church and it's 'holy' Popes.

That'll REALLY keep you awake nights.

"Faith without works is dead."

Canon Law

"Canon Law," the juridical law of the Roman Catholic Church, often is cited by both sides in the abortion debate--usually to make a point about the Church's moral stance. However, Canon Law is not a moral code, it is the administrative, civil, jurisdictional, procedural and penal law of the Catholic Church. It is subject to many of the same political, administrative and practical influences that shape any other body of law; while the authoritative moral teachings of the Church, per se, belong to a different forum. But, at times, it is reasonable to make moral inferences from the Canons. Still other times it may not be. Canon Law remains a somewhat esoteric and remarkable body of law, one that is rarely discussed with much understanding.

Background

Juridically, the Church is an autocracy; the pope (alone or with a council) has sole power to draft, promulgate, and rescind the laws that govern a church of c. 900 million. Since ancient times, Canon Law was a collection of active disciplinary decrees (as opposed to moral and theological pronouncements) of the popes and councils. Each law, or "Canon," was known by the first few words of its name in Latin--the Church's official language. However, in 1917, Pope Benedict XV promulgated a comprehensive codified version of the Canon Law (the "Pio-Benedictine Code" or "Code of Canon Law"). This did for Canon Law what the Restatements supposedly do for common law. In 1983, John Paul II promulgated a new Code--the one currently in force.

Historically, abortion arises in two places in Canon Law: the law of "irregularity" and the penal law. Irregularity is a canonical bar (or "impediment") to receiving or exercising holy orders (i.e. being a deacon, priest, or bishop.). Irregularities are not punishments, per se. Insanity and existing marriage are irregularities, as are homicide and apostasy. The penal law, on the other hand, is just like state criminal law, but tailored to ecclesiastical purposes.

Penal Law

The 1983 Code of Canon Law contains the following provision:

Title VI
OFFENSES AGAINST HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM

Can. 1397 -- One who commits homicide or who fraudulently or forcibly kidnaps, detains, mutilates or seriously wounds a person is to be punished with the deprivations and prohibitions mentioned in can. 1336 in accord with the seriousness of the offense; however, homicide against the persons mentioned in can. 1370 is punished by the penalties specified there.

Can. 1398 -- A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.

[The Latin original reads: Can. 1398 -- Qui abortum procurat, effectu secuto, in excommunicationem latae sententiae incurrit.]

An excommunication is the heaviest spiritual sanction the Church can render. So long as it is in force, it bars the excommunicated person from the church community and from receiving most of the sacraments, as well as from all public associations affiliated with the Church. An automatic (or "latae sententiae") excommunication is an especially severe penalty. The nine or so latae sententiae excommunications in the Code are reserved for use against certain things the Church particularly wants to deter, like assaulting the pope (can.1370) and priests divulging matters heard in the confessional (can.1388). Most excommunications can only follow a tribunal trial (can. 1425, §1, 2°). But latae sententiae penalties operate like a bill of attainder in that there is no "process" for their imposition--the fact that the person voluntarily performed the proscribed act, in the absence of some exception provided in the law, means the penalty is incurred. An excommunication can usually be lifted by the local bishop (the "local ordinary") and sometimes by a priest during confession (can. 1354-1357).

The 1917 Code had a similar provision:

Canon 2350, §1 -- Persons who procure abortion, mothers not excepted, automatically incur excommunication reserved to the Ordinary at the moment the crime takes effect: if they are clerics, they shall also be deposed.

Though it is clear enough the Church has always regarded abortion as a serious sin, it was not always accorded a penal sanction in Canon Law equal to that given homicide (nor is it now, see can.1397, supra).

The first papal canon, Effraenatam, that universally imposed a penal penalty of excommunication for abortion was issued by Sixtus V in 1588. It applied to all abortions and was reserved to the Holy See. In 1591, the law was modified by Gregory XIV so that the penalty would not apply when a fetus was not "animated" or "ensouled" under the Aristo-Aquinan theory of when human life begins (not before 40 days) and gave the local bishops control of these cases. This was motivated, at least in part, by the sheer volume of litigation the law had produced ("reserved to the Holy See" meant that each case had to be taken to Rome for the excommunication to be lifted). In 1869, Pius IX rescinded the animation exception. The canons of the 1917 and 1983 Codes apply to all direct abortions. Abortions incident to otherwise lawful medical care that is required to save the life of the mother (e.g. chemotherapy, hysterectomy of a cancerous uterus) are given an interpretive exception from the rule under the priciple of "double effect."

As in all penal laws there are qualifications as to who is subject to a law--Canon 1321, and following, of the 1983 Code makes such provisions.

Irregularity

From the earliest days of the Church, men who had shed human blood, no matter how justifiable or blameless the act may have been, were excluded from entering the priesthood (e.g., Decretum Gratiani by Pope Innocent I in the year 404). This traditionally embraced abortion as a form of homicide. However, in 1211, Pope Innocent III issued the decree Sicut ex, which limited the irregularity incurred from abortion to abortions involving a fetus that was not "animated" or "ensouled." This exception was subsequently abrogated as both of the modern codes have provisions that apply to all abortions (can. 985, §4 in the 1917 Code, and can.1041, 4° in the 1983 Code).

Back to Abortion Law Homepage

Sign Petition to Excommunicate Catholic Pro-abortion Politicians, this will help get the ball rolling

The Catholic Church is Christ's Church alone and has been from 33AD. It is only those who left that created "denominations". We do not recognise "denominations" in Christ's Church.

Amen. Great post, Tantumergo.

Obey or depart. It really is that simple.

That's an interesting issue and one I'll bet we'll hear more about in the future. Maybe Catholic, pro-abort politicians will decide that it isn't worth all the hassle and start abandoning their churches en masse.

I'd really like to see how this would play out. Ultimately, I'm not sure it would result in the Catholic Church's best interests - if their more powerful members abandon her in favor of a Protestant faith. But I think we might be headed toward that very scenario.

Vatican Gives Catholic Pols Guidelines

Living the Gospel of Life: A Challenge to American Catholics A Statement by the Catholic Bishops of the United States

You can START with #24:

Since the entry of Catholics into the U.S. political mainstream, believers have struggled to balance their faith with the perceived demands of democratic pluralism. As a result, some Catholic elected officials have adopted the argument that, while they personally oppose evils like abortion, they cannot force their religious views onto the wider society. This is seriously mistaken on several key counts. First, regarding abortion, the point when human life begins is not a religious belief but a scientific fact -- a fact on which there is clear agreement even among leading abortion advocates. Second, the sanctity of human life is not merely Catholic doctrine but part of humanity's global ethical heritage, and our nation's founding principle. Finally, democracy is not served by silence. Most Americans would recognize the contradiction in the statement, "While I am personally opposed to slavery or racism or sexism I cannot force my personal view on the rest of society." Real pluralism depends on people of conviction struggling vigorously to advance their beliefs by every ethical and legal means at their disposal.

#32

...No public official, especially one claiming to be a faithful and serious Catholic, can responsibly advocate for or actively support direct attacks on innocent human life... This is the faith, you CAN NOT pick and choose (Cafeteria Catholic). You are either in good graces with the Church or you are not. There are NO exceptions. That's just the way it is.

It was perhaps convenient for those people to be Catholic when they ran for office.

When people like Granholm are asked to "stand on principle"... they have to sit down.

You're right on both accounts.

I'd really like to see how this would play out. Ultimately, I'm not sure it would result in the Catholic Church's best interests - if their more powerful members abandon her in favor of a Protestant faith. But I think we might be headed toward that very scenario.

The Catholic Church has existed for over 2,000 years. I seriously doubt that alienating people, even powerful people, who want to support the right of mothers to kill their unborn children is very high on the Church's list of worries.

The Church, for better or for worse, is a mighty oak, not a supple sapling that bends to the prevailing breeze.

I think the Church fervently hopes that these powerful members will see the error and sin of their ways and repent, and rejoin the Catholic fold, rather than deparing the Church.

I think the Church fervently hopes that these powerful members will see the error and sin of their ways and repent, and rejoin the Catholic fold, rather than deparing the Church.

Ain't happening. Politicans dance with the ones who brung them. If Jennifer Granholm switched sides, she would never be re-elected. The pro-life crowd would support the GOP candidate and she would have alienated her democrat base.

And since she's given no indication of ever abandoning the Catholic Church, the only way to get her out of there is to ex-communicate her.

Gov. Granholm back in high school auction

Monday, February 17, 2003

BY LAURA POTTS
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Bidders at this weekend's Mercy High School auction will once again be able to vie for lunch with Gov. Jennifer Granholm after school officials reversed an earlier decision to take the item off the auction block.

Administrators at the Farmington Hills girls' college preparatory school met Sunday. The reversal comes after board of trustees member Agnes Mansour gave her resignation last Wednesday because she opposed the decision to eliminate lunch with Granholm.

In a statement released this afternoon, Mercy officials called the issue sensitive and said it has ``provoked much discussion and debate.''

``Critical thinking is at the core of our curriculum as a Catholic school. We teach critical thinking in an atmosphere that is compassionate and supportive of diversity,'' the statement said. ``We believe that providing Mercy students and mothers with the chance to meet with Gov. Granholm is a valuable educational opportunity and fully consistent with our school's philosophy, mission and values.''

The lunch was dropped because of opposition by a few parents, alumnae and a group called Stop Granholm Church and Truth Project who object to Granholm's stance on abortion. The governor, who is Catholic, has said she is personally opposed to abortion but supports a woman's right to choose.

Mercy officials said today that they have ``re-invited Gov. Granholm and she has graciously accepted.''

The auction is scheduled for this Saturday.

See above.

You wrote: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

We all know Christians aren't perfect, we are all sinners.

But to be forgiven, we must first repent and be sorry and confes our sins. In the Catholic Church we have a sacrament of Reconcilation.

In the Governor's case, by her actions and words, she has promised that she will promote and promulgate the murder of God's children. She learned as a Catholic God made us for Himself -- in His image and likeness, He made us -- and Heknew us before we were in our mother's womb.

As Christians we are allowed to make judgments about others -- we know it is immoral to steal, lie, covet, and murder.

Abortion is murder. It is the deliberate taking of another's life.

Ms. Granholm is "choosing" to ignore God's laws and the laws of her Church and the edicts of The Pope. Until she repents she has in essence excommunicated herself.

She can't have it both ways -- you just can't call yourself a Catholic and then turn around and behave like a pagan.

She has chosen to be willing to kill a child to get a vote.
Enclosed is a news article that describes how she took $400,000 from Emily's List -- radical pro-abortion feminists -- who only fund women who promise to vote to kill helpless children.

RACE: Granholm rallying women and their cash
http://www.freep.com/news/politics/gov21_20020321.htm

March 21, 2002

BY CHRIS CHRISTOFF AND KATHLEEN GRAY
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

Attorney General Jennifer Granholm's bid to become Michigan's first female governor engulfs the 2002 race in a central question: Will women vote overwhelmingly for a woman?

That will be answered at the ballot box. What is clear now is that some connected women are raising big money for Granholm, who in recent polls has emerged as the front-runner for the Democratic nomination.

So far, Emily's List, the national fund-raiser for Democratic women who favor abortion rights and have a good chance of winning, accounts for $400,000 of the $2.8 million Granholm has amassed, a campaign spokesman said. Tonight, Emily's List hopes to generate $30,000 more at a fund-raiser in Southfield.

Here is a new related thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/845636/posts