Who is the baddest of the bad? SEALs, Rangers, Marines, ?

[ConservativeDude]

Who is the baddes of all our special forces? Rangers? SEALs? Other?

[lews]

Personally, I have known Navy Seals, Marine Force Recon (Green Seals), and Green Berets and they are all the best-of-the-best. However, after knowing them, I was of the impression that the Marines Force Recon, the "Green Seals", had the edge.

[Veloxherc]

They are not doing the same job as the others but a very important one. The Air Force PJ's (parajumpers). They are Combar Search and Rescue (CSAR).

[NordP]

My bro was a Ranger / 101st - so I agree with YOU!

NordP

[Caliban]

SEALS...with No disrespect for the other fine men and women in the other branches...

God bless each any every man and women in the uniform...they are indeed heros...

[kms61]

If this question is asked on one of the boards (there are a few) where the real deals hang out, the poster will get flamed unmercilessly. These guys have the utmost respect for each other and don't play the "who's baddest" game.

[Highway55]

Rush mentioned years ago about an elite group called,

"All-American First Cavalry Amazon Battalion"
For your consideration....

[Veloxherc]

COMBAT search and rescue

[A Navy Vet]

"air wimps"? Naval Aviators may not be proficient in hand-to-hand combat but they are the best aviation fighters in the World. SAR teams are nothing to sneeze at either.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

I'm not sure which is the baddest of the bad, but I do know that I wouldn't want to be an enemy/target of a single one of them, no matter what branch.

[VaBthang4]

Well, I would think that the by definition, the best would have to be Delta Force Operators.

Followed by Green Berets

Then US Navy S.E.A.L.S.

Then Marine Corps F.A.S.T. Companies

Then US Army Rangers [Delta's default Security Element]

Then you'd begin to get into a large mix of extremely capable. competent and lethal units that provide a myriad of operational profiles.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Among all services, the person who is baddest of the bad is one who controls the assignments. You'll most likely never see them, but they control your future. Could be a civilian.

[VaBthang4]

"The Marine spec ops would be either Force Recon or their Sniper/Recon teams."

Wrong.

[The Shrew]

I'm a former Marine!

Having declared my bias it is my personal belief that the Navy SEALS are the finest elite small unit fighting force in the world. I believe that answers your question.

It is vital that forces be used for what they are designed. For what the Marines are designed to do no one does that better in the world. Including the USArmy. Conversely, the Marines are not designed to slug it out with the former Soviet Empire in Europe. It's not that Marines wouldn't fight courageously or do well - but we've not been designed for it.

It's my opinion that the Secretary of Defense is uniquely positioned to make the type of longlasting impact that will transform the US Military at exactly the right time for that transformation.

Fourth Generation Warfare is not about slugging it out with armor in the Fulda Gap. Similarly Strategic Warfare in the new generation of warfare may not just mean the employment of nuclear weapons.

To fight this new generation of warfare our military must make the kind of transformation that happened in the 1920's - even more so! Strategic warfare may mean a Scout/Sniper team taking out a warlord in a country no one has ever heard of - instead of just Nuclear deterrance.

To me, this means a rethinking of our entire military structure not just, "Who is the baddest of the bad!"

Fighting the next generation of warfare may mean a permanent "regimental system" within the US Military with "regiments" assigned unique tasks within a flexible organizational structure. It may mean 15 year SSGT's who are with that scout sniper team making $100k a year. It may do away with the 'up or out' mentality that permeates our current force structure. If a guy is a outstanding fighter pilot but an incompetent Squadron Commander is he worth having around?

Those type of questions are answered differently in the 4th Generation Warfare mode that we are currently faced with than they have been answered by the US Military in the post Cold-War world!

I believe a MAJOR Force restructuring from Command and Control down to the very roots of the military, including military procurement, compensation, recruiting, training and use.

Revamping and reforming the US Military to deal with this next generation of warfare also means looking at how the US Congress and the American People look at the US Military. You cannot fight 4th Generation warfare when the Democratic% of the voting public looks at the military as a job program for undesirables, or as a way to have their congressional district have jobs, or as a way to introduce technology to the private sector - if that technology doesn't enhance military capabilty.

It is a massive reformulation. I hope Rummy is the one who leads it!

Regards,

TS

[Windsong]

"can members of branches other than the Navy try to become a SEAL? How that that work? If you make it, then are you a Navy man regardless of where you started?

Actually if you do some poking around www.navyseals.com you can probably find out the history of the ONE guy who completed both Ranger AND BUD/S. I think it was a long time ago though, but his name escapes me. I do remember he is an accomplished author. The forums aren't too shabby either :)

[CyberCowboy777]

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

Enter Special Operations.Com

[VaBthang4]

"Many of the pictures of scruffy looking Americans with camo'd M-4's in Afghanistan are CIA not Delta."

Actually I think the ones you are seeing are Dynacorp private employees [most of which are former Deltas, Rangers, SEALS & Marines] on CIA PAyroll.

[mrMJ]

United States Air Force Pararescue Jumpers, or known as PJ's are the Baddest MFer's on earth. These dudes jump into 80 foot sea to rescue downed air crew or civilian rescues. Anywhere from the Himilayas to the the the hottest combat zones in the jungles, PJ's will rescue anyone, anytime.

USAF Pararescue (PJs) Creed

It is my duty as a Pararescueman to save life and aid the injured. I will be prepared at all times to perform my assigned duties quickly and efficiently, placing these duties before my personal desires and comforts. These things that I do, THAT OTHER MAY LIVE.

Check it out:
www.pjsinnam.com
www.specialtactics.com

[wardaddy]

I have spent time in a number of conflict zones in my early adult life from Asia to West Africa to Latin America. Some of these folks know nothing but war to varying degrees from birth onwards.

I for one would hate to be chased thru the Caucasus by a determined gang of vengeful Chechnyan terrs....some folks simply live this their entire lives. I've seen documentaries on Bosnia where the lines were manned by anyone capable of aiming an SKS even if quite old.

Or perhaps think of being on the Eastern front in WWII or being a Luftwaffe pilot and fly till you die or the war's over or being a colonist running from a band of highly pissed Hurons or a Texas settler dealing with some riled Commanches(was there any other kind?..lol)

Baddest of the bad takes on many connotations depending on the conditions. The Wermacht kicked ass for several years with basically a bolt action weapon supported by Stutkas and nice but heavy tanks.

I worked with a number of non-active SAS mercs in West Africa and Latin America while they were pulling security duty and will readily confess that they scared me sans one of them who was a reasonable fellow. The rest were borderline psychos and proud of it.

This makes for a fun chat but demanding circumstance can make simple men into heroes just as readily. One never knows until TSHTF. I've seen meek fellows turn it up and I've seen swaggering barrel strokers break weak. It's very hard to tell. Audie Murphy as has already been mentioned here is proof of that.

Those Delta guys in Blackhawk Down who were I suppose a mix of all the Spec-Ops branches and who insisted on rappeling to their deaths to help their comrades were indeed the right stuff to serve as a more recent historical development.

I have seen women who when in fear of harm to their children have the muster that should strike fear in any man's heart btw.

[vista500]

Houston Terry...

My son, an ex-marine released from service in early eighties, got the bright idea of joining the navy reserve...seabees, a few months ago. He had some extra training for corp command a month ago....did him real good...he was yanked from the reserve unit (the only one, btw)even tho his "real" MOS was electrician....
Just shows you the benefits of advanced training.

I remember being trained for the Warhead Section of a Corporal Guided Missle Unit based in Germany. Despite my critical MOS, I had learned there was a small Group Level marching band on the Kasern. Well, having the new combo playin' at the officer's club was enuff to be pulled out of my warhead command center and plopped into the marching band. Moral of the story.
Watch out for those 7th Army Band members!!

[VaBthang4]

"The SEALS, because they're the most like the British SAS"

I'd think the SEALS would be more akin to the SBS versus the SAS.