White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax (altogether)

New York Times, Business and Financial Desk, Page 14, Column 5 ^ | 2/8/2003 | EDMUND L. ANDREWS

[Bigun]

White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax Overhaul By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 — President Bush, having already set off a firestorm over his proposals to cut taxes and revamp retirement accounts, suggested today that the time might be near to drop the income tax as a whole and replace it with some form of consumption tax...

[graycamel]

The states collecting the money would probably work today because the country has matured to a point where we know we have to support defense, etc. Just like if the govt got rid of the minimum wage, it wouldn't drop to zero, besides most states would enact their own wage.

[lewislynn]

Under the NRST method, this means that 23¢ is tax that is collected by the government and 77¢ is the cost of the item due to the seller.

Well said, but I might add the tax is also hidden. Something the nst shills claim they will eliminate.

First of all, for example the tax is not imposed on the sale but "of the gross payment".

If a $100.00 (before tax) item in a state with an 8% sales tax is $108.00 including state sales tax. The $100.00 item after a "23%"(?) nst gross payment tax, would be:
$100.00 + state tax= $108.00
$108.00 plus 29.87% = $140.26 (gross payment)..that's $32.26 nst.

Don't beleive me?
$140.26 (gross payment)
Minus 23% (federal gross payment tax)= $108.00...($32.26 being 23% "of the gross payment").

Increasing the cost of Everything you spend money on (Remember, no exemptions) by 30%+ (not 23%), paying taxes on taxes gives you less, not more, disposable income.

Ironicly, when challenged that the NRST proposal does nothing to reduce government spending, they claim that it makes taxes "more visible" to the taxpayers

Also, the government taxes itself on purchases. Where does that tax money come from? (hidden tax) ..and worse yet they impose an additional excise tax on "any government"(local, state, federal) employee's wages salary and benefits increasing the cost of government payroll etc. by another 30%..A HUGE hidden tax that doesn't show up on any receipt you let alone one would otherwise throw in the garbage without looking twice at.

[graycamel]

I don't know if Virginia still does it, but they did a few years ago. I had to pay my income tax, not to Richmond, but to the city of Roanoke! I don't know how the cities and counties handle it. See this site: http://www.tax.state.va.us/site.cfm?alias=WhereToFile

[graycamel]

Thanx. I don't know if they'll ever have the taxes collected locally. The rats would say that the kids would starve to death.

[and the horse you rode in on]

That's the silliest idea I've ever heard. Then they would be even less responsive to the needs of the people. They wouldn't necessarily be more in tune with the state, just with trying to please the politicians in power.

That's the way it was till the 17th amendment was passed in 1913. It worked very well. The rampant populism of the period got the amendment through. That is the real beginning of an overreaching Federal Government. FDR's power grabs were just the execution of a sentance already passed.

[graycamel]

Thanx. It may have worked well then, but I doubt it would now. Oh, look, it's 6 o'clock. I've gotta go!

[and the horse you rode in on]

The states collecting the money would probably work today because the country has matured to a point where we know we have to support defense, etc.

Have you looked at the average State Legislator lately? They are the most short sighted venal bunch of swine imaginable. No way would they let go of a penny that they had taken the heat for raising by taxing.

The same thing that happened last time would happen again.
Every State would decide that it's emergencies were too important this year and the other States could pay this time. In six months the Feds would not be able to pay the military and it would all be over.

[ApesForEvolution]

Sorry Slick, you just don't have your act together on this issue. I've spend decades studying all aspects of the IRS/IRC and the last several years on alternatives. You're stuck in a time warp. I'd take the time to educate you, but ancient_geezer is whom I humbly defer to. I guess you'd have to actually have had to achieve something in life to have to understand what the IRS is all about...besides stealing from producers to give to non-producers.

[ApesForEvolution]

Let's see: Pat B., Lenora Fulani and the Marxist Communist (Socialist) Manifesto's key plank: Progressive Income Taxation.

Why am I not surprised of your support for the IRS?

[ApesForEvolution]

THANK YOU!

[ApesForEvolution]

"All individuals are treated the same under the NRST"

A small, but critically important nugget that some IRS lovers miss...if the numbers don't factually get some, maybe the fairness aspect emotionally will.

[ApesForEvolution]

WG: You're a class warfare artiste, aren't you?! You would rather have convoluted and intrusive (the communist IRS) versus simple and fair! You've lost every shred of credibility I've ever attributed to you.

[eeriegeno]

BillyBob, I agree with you 100%. Millions of retirees will be slammed twice with a consumption tax. I say that a flat tax needs to be put in place. With NO exemptions or exclusions. You earn 'x' bucks, you pay 3,4,5% (whatever is needed to generate funds to run the fed gubbmint.) Also, what is also needed drastically is a check on gov't spending. Zero based budgeting was a good idea. Most folks would be outraged if they could read the federal budget line items and what each item costs.

[vinylsidingman]

Best news I've heard on the financial front in my lifetime I think!

Well, Bigun my friend,, i know you've worked hard and campaigned long on this issue, so i know your heart is beaming today.
As nasty as the RATS were during the SOTU speech,, can you imagine ,, if W had the tax code on the podium when announcing this,, shoving it on the floor declaring the end of the IRS,,, WOW,, the auditorium would have errupted,, the camera shots of the RATS would have been priceless,,,
Good Luck, buddy,, we're praying for ya

vsm

[Willie Green]

You've lost every shred of credibility I've ever attributed to you.

Bulldung. You flying monkeys never extend that courtesy to anybody unless they mindlessly bob their empty heads up and down in 100% agreement with your tax scam.

[ApesForEvolution]

You entered this thread with a self-centered attitude, an attitude that this country can no longer afford and I no longer gloss over. The reality is, we either want to continue with the IRS gestappo, the product of the American communists embracing the Marxist Communist (Socialist) Manifesto - or simple, fair and no more IRS/IRC. And, it's about being educated and then being able to apply logic to facts. So, yes, I'm not here today to persuade, but keep this thread bobbing up and down and call'em how I see'em. Stop thinking about yourself and think about your children, your grandchildren, great and great-great grandchildren. Do you want them to face the high-tech IRS of the future? Have you ever dealt with these buzzards???

[ApesForEvolution]

After reviewing your arguments defending the IRS's Progressive (and intrusive to say the least) Income Tax, taken straight from the Marxist Communist (Socialist) Manifesto, I would say that, yes, I had respected a lot of what you've posted over the years, but no, now, I see you lack some very basic fundamentals. There have been a lot of people put their lives, liberty and treasure at risk to get to the point where the Feds realize the IRS/IRC can not remain viable, and for you to put forth such unequivocating smoldering bags of cat crap simply is disgusting. You mix enough lies with truths to sell your IRS. You, Slick, can have it.

[Principled]

No. Retirees will have NO additional tax burden due to an nrst.

Who started that anyway?

Retirees ALREADY pay tax when they purchase. The fact that they'll pay tax when they spend their savings is nothing new. They'll spend no more on taxes under an nrst than what they pay now.

What makes you think they'll pay more due to an nrst???

[dljordan]

If this is true then there will be a s**tstorm coming from the left and the bureaucrats when they see the source of their power coming under attack.

[Windcatcher]

I'm sure the telephone calls and emails from the Left Coast and New England are flying faster than a cat off a hot plate. To say that they'll blow a gasket is putting it mildly.