[Liberal Classic]

I haven't seen this posted yet, and I saw it through Slashdot. This is generally considered a good essay, but there are some problems with his figures as pointed out by Slashdot readers. He claims that the Shuttle is the least reliable launch vehicle we have, which isn't exactly true. The shuttle has a 98% success rate, whereas the Delta rocket which is considered reliable only has a 97% success rate. Soyuz has had two failures already, but has not exceeded 100 missions, like the shuttle has.

Putting that aside, I like this article because it points out what our current space program isn't getting us. We need to develop two things to make our space program useful for human spaceflight: One, rotating habitats, and better recycling. These two things are highlighted in this article, and they're vitally important to human habitation of space. Without artificial gravity, we are doomed to failure.

I personally think a manned mars expidition is little more than a publicity stunt, as has been said about the moon landings. The difference with the moon is that it is quite close by, as astronomical objects go, and makes a good launch platform for points unknown. It also has been proven to have water, and other necessary metals and the like. Personally, I would support renewed moon shots rather than a manned mars mission. The one drawback that the moon has is its reduced gravity, which means it has the same drawback as any space habitat without artificial gravity. I don't think the moon will be a for permanent settlement, but I do believe it is a useful base of operations.

As an aside, I do not think Mars is very useful in terms of the long term survival of mankind. Life grows exponentially, and even if Mars is terraformed to a best case scenario, the maximum carrying capacity of our solar system has only been increased 100%. Plus, Mars has all the disadvantages Earth has, such as a large gravity well. To grossly oversimplify, I am in favor of building hundreds and thousands of Babylon 5 style space stations.

For further reading, see the excellent Space Settlement FAQ by Mike Combs.

[lepton]

One of the issues, is that we must have enough stuff up there to hold enough workers (human or robotic) to prepare for the later steps. As the Space Station gets bigger, it will be able to hold more people, which will enable it to do more things.

The Space Shuttle is old, and technologically marginal. Compare the Columbia to the Endeavor...then look at what a new generation craft might be able to do. The crafts that he describes as apparent alternates are wholly unable to do more than a few of the Shuttle's missions, aside from the essential return to earth.

[Arkie2]

I know it is politically impossible to abandon manned spaceflight but the most productive use of our resources would be many robot probes instead of the dead weight of the ISS. There are several new technologies that need to be explored. The ion engine has proven itself in space and coupled to a nuclear power source could explore the outer solar system. There are even several innovative ideas waiting in the wings such as solar sails and the space elevator which would cut the cost of taking loads from the earth to orbit. I would love to see NASA return to an engineering agency instead of what it has become which is a means to conduct politcs in space. That's why we have the bloated and useless ISS, so Russia and some European countries can "participate" in joint ventures in space with us. Scrap manned flight for now and get on with exploration.

[supercat]

The International Space Station has tried very few innovations, and certainly nothing as fruitful as a centrifugal experiment.

How hard a concept is an oversized centrifuge? Why hasn't such a thing been built? For that matter, what are we really doing with the ISS anyway? Building space for three people, with never any ambition for more than seven? How's that thing any better than Mir (which the Russians got up a lot cheaper)?

[Batrachian]

They cancelled the X-33 (Venturestar) program because of delays, cost overruns, and engineering problems, but it had a lot of promise. No tiles, at least. Now they have nothing to fall back on and have to start from scratch again. The worst-case scenario is to try and keep the shuttle program going. It's a capable craft, but is too expensive, too limited in terms of availability, and too dangerous.

In the 1960's, they started working on a replacement for the Saturn rockets (before the shuttle came along and killed it). It would have been able to boost 1 million pounds gross weight into orbit. With today's technology it would be easy, and would be far more capable, safer (unmanned), and cheaper than the shuttle. It would be capable of lunar and other deep space missions, which the shuttle cannot do. It should be resurrected, as should the Venturestar program.

Let's use this disaster as a new starting point for a revitalized space program whose goals would be space colonization, pure science, and commercial exploitation of space.

[bribriagain]

The advances in shuttle technology and the advances in understanding human physiology are reaching a crucial intersection. Longevity and modifying the human body to be more "space friendly" could change the way we look at future space flight IMHO.

Set the long term goals first: "The stars our destination". Then figure out the platforms and steps needed to realize that goal.

[Redleg Duke]

Growing up in the 50s and seeing Dr. Von Braun on Disney, describing the ring space station, I don't understand why that hasn't been seriously considered. I suppose the NIH factor may have something to do with it.

All I know is that NASA has gone from a "Can-Do" Space Agency to a "Can't-Do" Bureaucracy and all we have left are memories of the greatest engineering and scientific team in history that was sacrificed on the alter of the "Great Society". And to what end?

[ZOOKER]

The ISS was designed for zero-gee operations, not to be spun around at the end of a cable. IMO, trying such a stunt would break it into pieces.

Furthermore, its interior ergonomics are zero-gee too. Under gravity, half of its workstations would be on the ceiling.

Simulated gravity is a good idea, but we would need to start with a blank sheet, not try to adapt the ISS to it.

As for unmanned expendable boosters, there are already many to choose from. Assembly lines are already running for satellite customers, all it would take is a phone call to increase capacity for ISS support.

[ffusco]

I would be in favor of NASA building the USS Enterprise from Star Trek. But seriously, Bio-Sphere failed as a self-contained space ship on the ground so I doubt we could permanantly settle or live in space for anther 100 years. Our space program is seriously flawed: no new launch vehicle, 7 y.o. space station practically useless, another "feel good international stunt" w/ no return on investment, no new rockets....

[Stefan Stackhouse]

What is the American destiny in space? The station is not a destination; it is a tool. But for what?

Travel to Mars, or "scientific exploration" are exactly the wrong objectives. They can become valuable adjuncts, but if one reviews the history of terrestrial exploration and settlement, you will find that it has ALWAYS been MAINLY about acquiring cheap and abundant resources -- mainly gold and land, with a few other assorted things like spices thrown in for good measure.

Petroleum is eventually going to become more scarce, but the people who think that just putting a solar collector on every roof and a wind generator in every back yard is the solution are hopelessly idealistic and naive. Solar energy might be part of the solution, but only if it can be harvested from massive facilities taking up a lot of room, in places where the sun shines 24/7/365, with no clouds or even atmospheric scattering to get in the way. Guess where that place is? The other big answer will be fusion. Again, we are NOT going to have little "Mr. Fusion" engines in our car like the guy had in "Back to the Future." If this technology is ever developed to the point of being economical, it is going to require huge facilities. The extremely high temps and pressures, and the extremely high levels of neutron release, are going to make these dangerous facilities to be around. Plus, it might just be easier to engineer them in a zero-g environment, so once again, space might be a good location. How to get the energy transported to earth. We'll probably need orbiting facilities that will take the energy produced by the solar arrays plus the energy produced by the orbiting fusion reactors to produce deuterium and tritium. Chill it down close to absolute zero, put it in a big stainless steel vacuum thermos, pop it in a re-entry vehicle, and send it to earth, where it becomes the feedstock for the terrestrial fusion plants. He3 (which can become the feedstock for the tritium production) is present in huge quantities on the moon, so we'll have to set up a major mining operation there.

Our terrestrial mineral supplies will eventually be getting scarce, too. There's a gazillion asteroids orbiting the sun, all made of all types of interesting minerals. It should be possible with a little bit of effort to send robotic spacecraft out that can attach themselves to an asteroid, and then through a series of carefully directed and timed thrusts gradually move an asteroid into the same orbit as the earth, but either leading or trailing us by a safe distance. We can then send crews out to mine these asteroids, and transport the ores to orbiting mills for refining. Much of the earth's heavy industry could eventually be relocated to earth orbit, which would provide two big advantages: 1) less pollution here on earth; and 2) development of a self-sustaining infrastructure in space (which will be absolutely essential before we can even begin to consider any exploration farther away).

The biggest advantage of pursuing a resource development/industrial infrastructure track is that this provides a logical and feasible pathway for private sector involvement and financing. Rather than just buring up dollars every time we launch stuff into space, we can actually turn space into a profit sector. That is the ONLY way that the long-term future of space exploration can ever be secured.

This is what our big-picture vision needs to be for at least the next 50-100 years. Once the infrastructure is in place and space development is a "going concern", THEN we will be ready to consider more adventurous steps to the planets and even nearby stars.

[537 Votes]

Max Hunter had the original Single Stage To Orbit vision, which was to build a giant traffic cone out of composite graphite, stuff it with kerosene and liquid oxygen, put a cluster of conventional rocket thrusters underneath, and blast off.

We keep on trying something different, however: multiple staging, solid strap-on boosters, tow ropes, mid-air refueling, wings, hydrogen-oxygen fuel, scramjets, giant factories to achieve scales of economy. And did I forget, helicopter rotors?

I am convinced that this level of blindness on the part of the entire aerospace community (exception Hunter, Stine, and me) is because God doesn't want us to go into space yet. If you're an atheist, substitute 'Advanced Alien Civilization with Stealth Mother Ship in Orbit' for God. But same thing. There's no way that six billion human beings could be more aversive to the simple, direct approach. Their minds must be clouded by something.

[boris]

I doubt that Americans will be moved to doubt our military, just because an advanced spacecraft fell out of a clear blue sky."

First flew in 1981. Advanced.

Like a beater 1981 Chevy, I guess.

--Boris

[jackbill]

A friend at NASA's Marshall Space flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama told me today that all his engineer friends were working on their resumes. After the Challenger disaster, NASA dithered for 2.5 years before using the shuttle again. How long this time?

If you recall, many of the "contractors" were laid off after the Challenger accident. However, not one federal government worker at NASA was laid off (RIF'd). What did they do during that 2 1/2 years? Obviously, those who were involved with the booster rockets were monitoring the developments at Thiokol. But what were all of the other NASA folks doing?

Bottom line, if there is a delay in launches of future Shuttles, I doubt that any - ANY - government workers will be affected. Contractor employees will be though.

That's just how it works with "government jobs".

[Valin]

Bump

[Illbay]

NASA is the entire reason we've gotten nowhere in space exploration, and until they are locked down, and their brain-trust dispersed to private industry, we will continue farting around with silly Near-Earth Orbit ventures that are pointless save to spend government money in influential states like California, Texas and Florida.

When's the last time you found yourself in awe of our exploits in space? I mean, really?

The whole program has become mainly a vehicle for expressions of multi-culturalism (every year we get someone who is the "first" of his her color/nationality/ethnicity/religion/social set to fly into "space.")

There are no plans to return to the moon, none to Mars, none to look at commercial exploitation of the asteroid belt, e.g.

Space exploration is as dead as our latest Shuttle crew, and it will remain that way until someone figures out how to make a solid buck from it, and governments (including and especially the U.N.) get out of the way.

[allhands]

Is their anybody at NASA who would still go up in a shuttle today? I heard that it's anywhere 1-75 or 1-150 chance of loss each flight. If it yes that lets fly! if it's no than lets hire some one who will. Todays thinking is that risk must not be managed or bet against, just avoided at all cost! Going to space must be risky and we must keep going back and winning more than we lose!

[Brett66]

The large space colonies woul be really cool, but we're going to have to be a strong spacefairing nation to even have a rationale to build those. We'll need large mining capacity on the moon and asteroids with extremely cheap methods of transport in the inner solar system. I could envision the rationale being the same as what started cities along rivers. You're right next to a crucial spot where a lot of material passes through, so why not build a way-station at that point to accomodate the transfer of these materials and make money off of it. It might end up that L1 could be the big "hot spot" of space development with L5 reserved for outbound payloads to the outer solar system.