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Rape, California-style
Townhall.com ^ | January 13, 2003 | Kathleen Parker

Posted on 01/13/2003 8:55:15 PM PST by LibertarianInExile

I'm going to try to keep this clean, but the recent California Supreme Court ruling that a woman who changes her mind during sexual intercourse qualifies as a rape victim tests one's commitment to decorum.

Yes, you read it right. The 6-1 ruling changes the definition of rape so significantly that a man who doesn't withdraw immediately upon his partner's shift in attitude can go to prison. One young man already has.

A 17-year-old -John Z. -served six months in a juvenile detention facility on a rape conviction following just such an encounter. He and Laura T. were having consensual sex when Laura decided she needed to get home. She didn't say, "Stop." She didn't cry out or struggle.

She merely said, "I should be going now" and "I need to go home," according to her testimony.

Because it reportedly took John Z. a full minute and a half to cease and desist -an act of rare self-control among the primate known as a 17-year-old male -he was convicted of rape. I don't know who was holding the timer during this intimate act. Was the rape victim monitoring her watch's second hand?

With its ruling Monday, the California Supreme Court affirmed John Z.'s conviction. Although Justice Janice Rogers Brown agreed with the rape definition, she dissented on whether the boy had been guilty of rape. She noted that he might have had an "honest and reasonable belief" that the girl didn't waive consent, a defense recognized by California courts.

Honest and reasonable? That sounds right. Given that the girl wanted to have sex, or at least said she did, then proceeded to have sex, and only then said she needed to go home, one could leap to the wild conclusion that the young man may not have divined her intent that he retreat.

I'm sorry, but when did girls get so stupid? In the old days -when girls were apparently both smarter and tougher -a girl who didn't want to have sex didn't have sex. She said no thanks, grabbed her purse and walked out the door. The boy may have been disappointed and frustrated, but he wasn't confused. "No" meant "no."

And "yes" meant yes to the finish line. If you want a guy to stop midway through the first act, pick an older boyfriend. Say fiftyish. Speaking of which, I keep coming back to this: Where's Daddy? Who didn't teach this girl the rules of engagement?

Once upon a time, fathers taught their daughters better. You don't take a boy to bed and then say "no." In a similar vein, as my father taught me, you don't pull a gun on someone unless you intend to kill him. There are certain things you don't kid around with, and hormonally charged teenage boys and loaded guns are among the top two.

I'm not suggesting that girls get what they deserve. So stifle the swoon, sisters. Nor am I suggesting that there aren't times when boys and men fail to listen carefully when girls and women speak. In my vast experience, they mostly pay close attention when food is involved.

But I am prepared to defend males against the sort of insanity that makes them criminals for not being able to read a girl's mind. Who exactly will bear witness to these "he said-she said" debacles? What words will suffice to mean "Stop," if "I need to get home" is enough to convict a boy of rape? What if she'd said, "Oh, gosh, I've got to buy cat food." Would that do? "Clearly my heart wasn't in it, Your Honor. He should have known I meant stop!"

And how quick is quick enough for the man to cease his foul play? A minute? Thirty seconds? The court didn't say.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, fellas, but the gelding of the American male is nearly complete and the message clear: You can do nothing right. As a friend's world-weary 15-year-old son correctly summarized the zeitgeist: "Women good, men bad."

John Z. wasn't guilty of rape; he was guilty of being male. If I were a guy, I'd find another country.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: California
KEYWORDS: california; californication; clinton; pc; rape; sex; womensrights
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To: John Valentine
Most women complain that guys don't last long enough. This one takes him to court for lasting too long!!

WOMEN!

21 posted on 01/14/2003 12:28:52 AM PST by Tall_Texan (Where liberals lead, misery follows.)
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To: Jonathon Spectre
"Learn to swim."
22 posted on 01/14/2003 5:25:03 AM PST by FLdeputy
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To: Tall_Texan
She should have taken a lawyer and sued the poor guy for not delivering the desired sexual satisfaction. Of course he didn't have deep pockets but if he did I can just see John Edwards jumping to take it even if he's no Robert O'Donnell of The Practice.
23 posted on 01/14/2003 5:28:34 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: nhoward14
California will fall into the ocean before it can be rescued.

It may, it may.

24 posted on 01/14/2003 5:29:40 AM PST by A. Pole
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To: LibertarianInExile
insanity!
25 posted on 01/14/2003 6:36:17 AM PST by Red Jones
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I find myself speechless. And yes, this is a most uncommon occurrence.
26 posted on 01/14/2003 6:49:54 AM PST by Citizen of the United States
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Did you know that...

27 posted on 01/14/2003 7:03:38 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: Citizen of the United States
What kind of sick person would ruin a guy's life for no reason? That WAS her goal, it had nothing to do with sex or rape. She just wanted to destroy this guy's life, and has. Hopefully, she'll never have to know what REAL rape is like.
28 posted on 01/14/2003 7:11:21 AM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: nicollo; Republic of Texas; LibertarianInExile; goldstategop; nhoward14; bigfootbob; wimpycat; ...
This is from the "FACTS" section of the California opinion - discussed at length yesterday, and which Ms. Parker suspiciously neglected to include:

The following facts are largely taken from the Court of Appeal opinion in this case. During the afternoon of March 23, 2000, 17-year-old Laura T. was working at Safeway when she received a call from Juan G., whom she had met about two weeks earlier. Juan wanted Laura to take him to a party at defendant’s home and then return about 8:30 p.m. to pick him up. Laura agreed to take Juan to the party, but since she planned to attend a church group meeting that evening she told him she would be unable to pick him up. Sometime after 6:00 p.m., Laura drove Juan to defendant’s residence. Defendant and Justin L. were present. After arranging to have Justin L.’s stepbrother, P. W., buy them alcohol, Laura picked up P. W. and drove him to the store where he bought beer. Laura told Juan she would stay until 8:00 or 8:30 p.m. Although defendant and Juan drank the beer, Laura did not.

During the evening, Laura and Juan went into defendant’s parents’ bedroom. Juan indicated he wanted to have sex but Laura told him she was not ready for that kind of activity. Juan became upset and went into the bathroom. Laura left the bedroom and both defendant and Justin asked her why she "wouldn’t do stuff." Laura told them that she was not ready.

About 8:10 p.m., Laura was ready to leave when defendant asked her to come into his bedroom to talk. She complied. Defendant told her that Juan had said he (Juan) did not care for her; defendant then suggested that Laura become his girlfriend. Juan entered the bedroom and defendant left to take a phone call.

When defendant returned to the bedroom, he and Juan asked Laura if it was her fantasy to have two guys, and Laura said it was not. Juan and defendant began kissing Laura and removing her clothes, although she kept telling them not to. At some point, the boys removed Laura’s pants and underwear and began "fingering" her, "playing with [her] boobs" and continued to kiss her. Laura enjoyed this activity in the beginning, but objected when Juan removed his pants and told defendant to keep fingering her while he put on a condom. Once the condom was in place, defendant left the room and Juan got on top of Laura. She tried to resist and told him she did not want to have intercourse, but he was too strong and forced his penis into her vagina. The rape terminated when, due to Laura’s struggling, the condom fell off. Laura told Juan that "maybe it’s a sign we shouldn’t be doing this," and he said "fine" and left the room. (Although Juan G. was originally a codefendant, at the close of the victim’s testimony he admitted amended charges of sexual battery (§ 243.4) and unlawful sexual intercourse (§ 261.5, subd. (b)), a misdemeanor.) Laura rolled over on the bed and began trying to find her clothes; however, because the room was dark she was unable to do so. Defendant, who had removed his clothing, then entered the bedroom and walked to where Laura was sitting on the bed and "he like rolled over [her] so [she] was pushed back down to the bed." Laura did not say anything and defendant began kissing her and telling her that she had "a really beautiful body." Defendant got on top of Laura, put his penis into her vagina "and rolled [her] over so [she] was sitting on top of him." Laura testified she "kept . . . pulling up, trying to sit up to get it out . . . [a]nd he grabbed my hips and pushed me back down and then he rolled me back over so I was on my back . . . and . . . kept saying, will you be my girlfriend." Laura "kept like trying to pull away" and told him that "if he really did care about me, he wouldn’t be doing this to me and if he did want a relationship, he should wait and respect that I don’t want to do this." After about 10 minutes, defendant got off Laura, and helped her dress and find her keys. She then drove home. On cross-examination, Laura testified that when defendant entered the room unclothed, he lay down on the bed behind her and touched her shoulder with just enough pressure to make her move, a nudge. He asked her to lie down and she did. He began kissing her and she kissed him back. He rolled on top of her, inserted his penis in her and, although she resisted, he rolled her back over, pulling her on top of him. She was on top of him for four or five minutes, during which time she tried to get off, but he grabbed her waist and pulled her back down. He rolled her over and continued the sexual intercourse. Laura told him that she needed to go home, but he would not stop. He said, "just give me a minute," and she said, "no, I need to get home." He replied, "give me some time" and she repeated, "no, I have to go home." Defendant did not stop, "[h]e just stayed inside of me and kept like basically forcing it on me." After about a "minute, minute and [a] half," defendant got off Laura. Defendant testified, admitting that he and Juan were kissing and fondling Laura in the bedroom, but claimed it was with her consent. He also admitted having sexual intercourse with Laura, again claiming it was consensual. He claimed he discontinued the act as soon as Laura told him that she had to go home.

How is this not rape?

And on another note - where, in any law, is it written that anyone has the right to finish? Does anyone have the right to force, by superior strength, the conclusion to a sexual act?

29 posted on 01/14/2003 10:09:50 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Man, they're everywhere lately!

BTW, check your FReepmail.

30 posted on 01/14/2003 10:17:42 AM PST by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Why has "Juan G." been changed to "John Z." but "Laura" is still "Laura"? If names were changed, why the defendant and not the alleged victim?

Secondly, while she protests, she also admits to kissing him while they are naked on the bed together and, in another point, admitting to enjoying being fondled while clothes were coming off. At best, she's sending mixed signals.

Either Laura is dumb as rocks or a liar.

It sounds more like "buyer's remorse" to me, not rape.

31 posted on 01/14/2003 10:28:00 AM PST by Tall_Texan (Where liberals lead, misery follows.)
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To: Tall_Texan
There are two rapists. One is Juan G. and the other is John Z.
32 posted on 01/14/2003 10:38:59 AM PST by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
After seeing the text of the matter, I agree that it was not consensual. I don't know if I'd call it rape, but then again, I'm not a woman.
33 posted on 01/14/2003 10:41:33 AM PST by scan59
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To: LibertarianInExile
Before it was required that men read women's mind. Now it's against the law if we don't.
34 posted on 01/14/2003 10:43:52 AM PST by M. Peach (Eschew obsfucation)
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To: M. Peach
Juan and defendant began kissing Laura and removing her clothes, although she kept telling them not to. At some point, the boys removed Laura’s pants and underwear and began "fingering" her, "playing with [her] boobs" and continued to kiss her. Laura enjoyed this activity in the beginning, but objected when Juan removed his pants and told defendant to keep fingering her while he put on a condom. Once the condom was in place, defendant left the room and Juan got on top of Laura. She tried to resist and told him she did not want to have intercourse, but he was too strong and forced his penis into her vagina.
35 posted on 01/14/2003 10:46:59 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: LibertarianInExile; All
Already posted, under the same title, with almost 200 replies:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/821612/posts?q=1&&page=1

There are a few posters that were there, trying to peddle their nonsense here, again.

36 posted on 01/14/2003 10:53:17 AM PST by FreeTally (Is it true that canibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?)
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To: Tall_Texan
Why has "Juan G." been changed to "John Z." but "Laura" is still "Laura"? If names were changed, why the defendant and not the alleged victim?

Read it again; there were two guys involved. Juan was her two-week old boyfriend who she went to the party with. John Z. was his buddy who actually got convicted of the rape when she admitted she was on top of him for four to five minutes. Juan took his lawyers advice and pleaded to a misdemeanor.

Secondly, while she protests, she also admits to kissing him while they are naked on the bed together and, in another point, admitting to enjoying being fondled while clothes were coming off. At best, she's sending mixed signals.

Not only does she admit to kissing him while they were naked, that happened AFTER the two guys played with her and John Z. "attempted" to have sex with her the first time. There were three distinct sexual encounters.

Either Laura is dumb as rocks or a liar.

A little naive and a definite liar in my opinion. Most likely pushed into it by her parents, again, in my opinion.

It sounds more like "buyer's remorse" to me, not rape.

That's the conclusion that is reached by most people who read the entire story with scrutiny and an open mind.

37 posted on 01/14/2003 10:59:16 AM PST by FreeTally (Is it true that canibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Boot Hill; All
You have absolutely no shame. Of all the stuff you bolded, you leave out the most important part which destroys her credibility:

So, all can now see how disingenuous you are being:

She was on top of him for four or five minutes,

She was on top of him for four or five minutes,

She was on top of him for four or five minutes,

Please, freepers, disregared the Chancellor's attempts to hide the most damning part of the story.

38 posted on 01/14/2003 11:03:44 AM PST by FreeTally (Is it true that canibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?)
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To: FreeTally
She was on top of him for four or five minutes, during which time she tried to get off, but he grabbed her waist and pulled her back down.

Idiot. Here, let me repeat that.

She was on top of him for four or five minutes, during which time she tried to get off, but he grabbed her waist and pulled her back down.

39 posted on 01/14/2003 11:06:06 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: FreeTally
She was on top of him for four or five minutes, during which time she tried to get off, but he grabbed her waist and pulled her back down.

She was on top of him for four or five minutes, during which time she tried to get off, but he grabbed her waist and pulled her back down.

40 posted on 01/14/2003 11:07:32 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (there - I can repeat stuff for effect, too)
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