NFL: Giants would have been flagged if they spiked it

AP Via ESPN ^ | 1-6-03 | ANON

[Pharmboy]

NEW YORK -- Giants holder Matt Allen could not have spiked the botched snap on the final play of New York's loss to the San Francisco 49ers.

It's against the rules.

Mike Pereira, the NFL supervisor of officials, confirmed Monday that Allen would not have been allowed to immediately spike the ball because it was a long snap. The only time a player can spike the ball is when he takes the snap from under the center.

With six seconds left Sunday and the Giants trailing 39-38, Matt Bryant lined up to try a potential game-winning 41-yard field goal. The snap from newly signed Trey Junkin was in the dirt. Allen fumbled the ball, then made a desperation pass downfield to what turned out to be an ineligible receiver, guard Rich Seubert.

Fox commentator Cris Collinsworth said at the time that since it was third down, Allen could have spiked the ball, giving the Giants another chance at a kick. Afterward, on the Fox postgame show, other commentators agreed.

Pereira said the only other option would have been to throw to an eligible receiver.

[Pharmboy]

I thought this was an interesting obscure football rule.

[Fred Mertz]

I'm glad I read this because the FOX announcer led me to believe that the holder pulled a boner by not spiking the errant snap.

[hchutch]

What would the penalty have been?

[walkingdead]

This is true, but if he got outside the box, and threw past the line of scrimmage they would've been able to run another down. Unfortunately time was up, so no dice. Had he threw it while still in the box, it would've been intentional grounding, and the game would still be over.

Any given Sunday...... man I love the NFL!

[robjna]

Everey time collingsworth opens his mouth , i want to stuff it with dogs#$%. The guy is of Joe Theisman caliper. Loves to hear himself speak but irritates everyone who has to listen to him. It has casued me to listen to radio broadcasts this year because of his move over to the playbooth.

[discostu]

Intentional grounding, which marks the ball at the spot of the foul and might still include a 5 second count off inside the two minute warning.

[Numbers Guy]

Pereira said the only other option would have been to throw to an eligible receiver.

Two points: Go back to the olden days, before spiking was allowed: All he had to do was throw at the feet of an eligible receiver (something QBs frequently do when a screen gets busted up--you don't want the guy to catch it and lose yardage).

Secondly: Okay, he spikes it. Illegal forward pass. 5 yards and loss of down. Because he does it so quickly, there's time left on the clock. They get another shot. That's preferable to what did happened.

Pet peeve: Coaches who let the clock tick down to 4 or so seconds for the game-winning or game-tying FG. If you leave 7 seconds on the clock then if something goes wrong and it's not 4th down, you can throw the ball away (or kneel and call TO if you have a time out left).

And if your offensive line doesn't have 7 men on the line and the flag drops, you get another play because there's two seconds left (if the clock runs out, you're SOL, game *can* end on an offensive penalty).

What the coaches are saying is that they're worried about 2 seconds being left on the clock and a Cal-Stanford type of KO return to end the game.

Okay, what's more likely? A Cal-Stanford (or Tennessee/Buffalo) type play, a once in a lifetime play that will be talked about for generations, or a team committing a penalty or botching a snap? I think the latter is a bit more probable. If a team has the chance, they should kick end-of-game FGs with 7-8 seconds left, then squib the kickoff rather than letting the clock run down to the last play.

[rs79bm]

Okay, so Cris Collinsworth sometimes says some crazy/stupid things, but didn't the Giants have a timeout left? Why couldn't he have gotten tackled, and call a timeout? He still would have had 1 or 2 seconds left. OR, why couldn't he have thrown an incomplete pass out of bounds, and/or then used a time out/kill the clock. In either case, why try for a field goal on third down if you don't expect to have another chance on fourth down if something goes wrong I.E bad snap, etc...

[ewing]

Allen could have fallen on the ball, called timeout with :02 OR :03 left and then set up a re-kick on 4th down.

That is what Collingsworth missed.

[twyn1]

I thought the same thing -- but I couldn't believe that the special teams coach would not have reminded them all what to do in case of a bad snap (esp. since it was a new guy and had muffed an earlier snap) -- there's no way he would have let them out onto the field without telling them all exactly what to do -- an ST coach would know what situations in which they could spike it or not -- but then, the ineligible man downfield was surprising to me...special teams practice a "fire drill" all the time-- he should have known better ! Truth be told--the Giants blew the game for a lot of reasons, including losing their cool way too often

[Numbers Guy]

Go back to the olden days, before spiking was allowed: All he had to do was throw at the feet of an eligible receiver (something QBs frequently do when a screen gets busted up--you don't want the guy to catch it and lose yardage).

One more point: It's inexcusable for a team *not* to have something ready for such a situation. WHY were ineligible receivers running downfield after a botched snap? There is absolutely no reason for them to do so, it's just inviting a penalty.

[dfwgator]

Intentional grounding, which marks the ball at the spot of the foul and might still include a 5 second count off inside the two minute warning.

I thought it was a 10-second count off, which would have ended the game anyway.

[blackdog]

I did not know Theisman made measuring devices? I find all commentators of Pro Football annoying. The only announcer I love to hear is......"Whoah Nellie" And he does college ball.

[amused]

Probably intentional grounding, with a 10 second run off of the clock.

This game absolutely killed me yesterday. The worst Giants loss in my lifetime, worse than Piscarchek, worse than the debacle against Minnesota in 97. Worse than any pasting, blow out, blown lead, divisional loss etc. WORST EVER!

Thank goodness I have 6 months to recover

[Mannaggia l'America]

Everey time collingsworth opens his mouth , i want to stuff it with dogs#$%.

He missed the spike thing because he was too busy concentrating on kissing Jeremy Shockey's butt the whole game.

OK, Shockey is pretty good (but a jerk). But I got tired of the announcers telling me about it on every play.

[mhking]

Intentional grounding, which marks the ball at the spot of the foul and might still include a 5 second count off inside the two minute warning.

Which still would have left about three ticks on the clock. Collinsworth can be stupid, but not completely. The question is whether or not the kicker could have handled a field goal from that far back.

In any event, the calls in both games yesterday were downright pathetic. The fighting from both the Niners and the Giants down the strech was not only unconscionable, but hopefully fineable. I hope those officials get fined by the League office as well - stupid stuff like not calling a delay of game (in the Steelers-Browns game) on Cleveland was nuts (and I wanted the Browns to win!), and I won't even go into that mess at Candlestick.

At least there was decent competition yesterday (as opposed to the Falcons and Jets blow-outs on Saturday).

[rs79bm]

Everey time collingsworth opens his mouth , i want to stuff it with dogs#$%.

I agree. I was happy when Fox NFL Sunday threw him off. However, I was disappointed to see that he then became a commentator. I sometimes watch that NFL show on HBO, and everytime this guy speaks you feel that the other guests want to get up and pummel him. He is rather annoying. Actually, he is an embarassment.

[rs79bm]

Everey time collingsworth opens his mouth , i want to stuff it with dogs#$%.

I agree. I was happy when Fox NFL Sunday threw him off. However, I was disappointed to see that he then became a commentator. I sometimes watch that NFL show on HBO, and everytime this guy speaks you feel that the other guests want to get up and pummel him. He is rather annoying. Actually, he is an embarassment.

[CyberCowboy777]

Bottom line - Giants players/player choked when the game was on the line.

We'll take it!

Great Game for another Great 49ers QB!

[UB355]

I am with you 100% There is a whole flock of these loudmouths who instead of reporting the game tell me, and everyone else who is watching, before and after each play what the teams need to do to suceed. It's getting distracting.