Quote from their page:While the orientation of the SpiralScouts program is based in Paganism, the organization is designed to be utilized by other groups, both nonsectarian as well as other minority faith groups.
Posted on 01/03/2003 8:35:59 AM PST by RonF
Darrell Lambert is prepared for a long struggle with the Boy Scouts of America, one decided by public opinion and not by lawsuits.
The 19-year-old Eagle Scout, the subject of national attention after being booted out of the organization last month for being an atheist, doesn't think his recent appeal will reverse his situation. Not soon, anyway.
Darrell Lambert of Olalla, who was kicked out of the Boy Scouts for being an atheist, has appealed the decision. But he says he won't go to court. "I'd like them to realize it is the moral thing to do."
"I think eventually the Boy Scouts will change," the Olalla teen said yesterday. "It'll just take longer than I like."
Lambert, who earned 37 merit badges in 10 years and assisted in leading a Port Orchard troop, sent his appeal last week to the Scouts' Western Region office in Tempe, Ariz. His letter started a process that likely could take months to resolve.
...
"Legally, (the Scouts) have a right to discriminate," Lambert said at a presentation on the issue yesterday. "Morally, they don't. That's what I'm fighting. They can't teach good citizenship and practice bad citizenship."
(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...
An interesting point. The fact that one can be forgiven by God for any kind of sin is often used by those professing faith to believe that once they petition for forgiveness, then they are free of sin and should not face consequences from man or God. But they are incorrect in this belief, as far as I believe. The fact that a leader can be forgiven for abusing his or her position of trust doesn't mean that they should be allowed to remain in that position of leadership (Congress and Bishops take note). This error is why we see so many leaders beg for forgiveness, but then try to hang on to their office.
The fact that a convict can turn over a new leaf and be legitimately penitent for their sins doesn't mean that they shouldn't have to continue to bear the consequences of the act they are penitent for. In fact, I'd argue that a person who is truly penitent wouldn't seek to retain their power and privileges. Although the interests of mercy (a concept I hope not limited to those with religion) might intervene here, depending on the sin/crime involved.
The receipt of forgiveness can ease the pain in your soul that results from having offended God, but it should not ease the pain and guilt you feel from having imposed suffering on others. You still need to seek them out and make what recompense is possible to meet your obligation to them; that obligation is not obviated by God's forgiveness. In fact, there are those who would hold that God's forgiveness is contingent on this.
Aaah, you're one of those! I'll respond and then let it be. Your style of arguing indicates that your mind is made up. Please ignore the following waste of bandwidth.
BSA even lays claim to the name "scout"
The name is essentially a trademark and if the BSA have rights to it, great! Other organizations have secured rights to their own names. Competitors would do well to have a unique and memorable name that doesn't include "scout" if they don't want to be confused with the BSA. While I regret musing about "Gay Scouts", I still thank you for the information about the naming rights.
Then, the BSA receives donations from our military (courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer)
If you're referring to the combined federal campaign, donors have a choice of which organizations to donate to. If you're not referring to the cfc, provide your evidence. Not that it matters. The Scouts and the military have a long relationship. Jamborees and such are routinely held on military grounds because of the superior facilities. Troops traveling across country can stay in unused barracks at reduced cost. Units ocassionally sponsor Explorer posts and allow the kids to have some fun adventures (confidence courses, helicopter rides, etc.). Some of their best NCOs and officers will emerge from these experiences.
a few parks are maintained for the sole use of the BSA;
Which parks? Federal? State? County? Regardless, the actual "maintainence" is likely done by the scouts themselves. Service projects! Hardly a burden to the taxpayers considering the millions of acres of land that they are also excluded from isn't maintained at all. See this summer's fires.
and a scout automatically can qualify for a level two grades higher than anyone else upon admission into the military.
There is a slant in this and I question your source. Scouting builds the kind of character development, self-discipline and leadership employers, colleges, and *heaven forbid* even the military require. If perks are given to Eagle Scouts (a pay grade, or higher rank), fine by me. If an organization discriminates in favor of an Eagle Scout, great! They clearly know more about what goes into making an Eagle Scout than you.
It is a federally-protected government monopoly
*yawn* Congress giving the program two-thumbs up does not make it a government monopoly. The BSA could drop this charter that bugs you so much and still find a way to disappoint you. Congress gives medals to people, too. Does that mean that valour or service to country is a virtue monopolized by the government?
requires a religious test upon entrance.
Again, a slant. Name the religion you have to follow to be in the BSA. Can't be done, there is no preference. The only requirement is an avowed belief in a higher power- something that is allowed under that "free exercise" clause that people forget about. I've known Jewish Scouts, a Taoist scout, several Navajo Cub Scouts, and even a goddes-type pagan who lit candles and hummed. The word "God" in the requirement is generic to avoid the silliness of saying God/Gods/Goddess/Ganesha, et al. Swearing on the Bible is more of a "religious test" than anything the Scouts require.
Oh, since you've been reading so much... did you know that every NASA mission has had a Scout on it? I smell a rat.
LOL! And knowing tomorrow's lotto numbers would be the antithesis of the idea of luck!
Not really, but the direction of logic is circular either way.
If I may. The National Jamboree is held at Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia. This is widely given as an example that the BSA is subsidized by the Feds. But, in fact, the reason that this is in the public interest is training.
Fort A.P. Hill is a training base. You may note that the USA has cause to post large numbers of military troops in the field on short notice. These people have to fight. In order to effectively fight, they need to be provided with nutritious and safe food, potable water, sanitary hygiene facilities, electricity, gas, etc. They may be doing this at any given location for 10,000 or more people at a time.
Now, you can set this stuff up and play with it all you want, but if you really want to see if your materials, policies, procedures and personnel can really do this job, there's only one way to test it; actually do it.
Now, if you do this for 35,000 active duty personnel, then there's 35,000 active duty personnel you've pulled out of whatever else they're doing, and you have to pay them. But if you do it for the Boy Scouts, then you've trained your personnel and tested out your policies, procedures, and materials at a much lower cost. And Boy Scouts have got a command structure and discipline that not only is similar to the military, but ensures that if there are difficulties they can be discovered and dealt with effectively. Also, Boy Scouts are used to sleeping in tents on the ground in the rain, eating perhaps not perfectly prepared food, drinking water that's got a few floaties, and regard using properly maintained port-a-potties for a whole week as a step up.
Plus, the Boy Scouts bring and set up their own tents and cook and pay for their own food.
So the American taxpayer gets benefit from having the Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill that's entirely independent from the benefit provided to 35,000 of some of the more patriotic youth of America.
That's just ducky for you you you you you you you ..... Now try passing that on through generations. That's a lot of what religion is good for. To teach morals to children.
Daddy daddy. What happens whey I die?-
-- Why they bury you six feet under sugar and the maggots eat you. That's the end of it for you!
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