Puget Sound-Off: Patty Murray on Osama bin Laden

The issue: Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., reaped praise and criticism over her comments to high school students in Vancouver, Wash., attempting to stimulate thought about the popularity of terrorist leader Osama bin Laden in some poor countries.

"It is typical commentary from someone that obviously believes everything wrong with the world is the USA's fault. Sadly it came from a U.S. senator. She isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, if that is her perception (of how) to best stimulate teenagers to think about our role in the world."

"Patty Murray was doing her job to raise the point that our reputation overseas could be different, better."

"Sometimes the truth hurts, but everything Patty said was true. I think Patty Murray is one of the most honest senators this state has ever had."

"Why there was no mention in Murray's speech of the literally billions of U.S. dollars spread around the world to make life better, is something to wonder about. Adof Hitler reconstructed Germany from rubble to a world power in the 1930s, but I don't remember anyone from Congress traveling the country praising his accomplishments after World War II started. Someone needs to remind Murray that we are at war and bin Laden is the enemy."

"Sen. Murray posed appropriate questions to high school students in Vancouver. A reading of her remarks, published as a sidebar to the original Dec. 19 story in the Vancouver newspaper The Columbian, shows that far from in any way endorsing terrorism or Osama bin Laden she instead was inviting reasoned analysis. That's a good first step toward informed and effective action."

"Unlike others, I saw nothing traitorous in Sen. Murray's remarks to high school students; her intent to spark debate and reflection was noble.

"But Sen. Murray was clearly wrong in her facts and arguably wrong in her position.

"Factual mistakes: First, Osama bin Laden has not claimed to have built roads, hospitals and day care centers in poor countries.

"In fact, those Islamic 'charities' linked to (him), such as Benevolence International Foundation and Global Relief Foundation, hid and denied their relationship to the terrorist leader.

"Second, when U.S. foreign aid is added to private U.S.-based charities, no country or entity can match U.S. efforts to help the poor in Islamic countries; their own oligarchies and theocracies normally don't even try.

"So Sen. Murray's basic argument, that we can prevent Islamic extremism by building more day care centers and hospitals, falls flat.

"Many in these countries just plain hate us: our status as the world's only superpower, our Christian majority, our capitalism, our wealth, our support for Israel (neglecting our support for the Arab world, especially Egypt)."

I'm very pleased with Patty Murray's comments in Vancouver. We ask politicians to make statements, and she did. It's surprising when we get what we ask for and still are not happy.

I wholeheartedly support Patty Murray, and it's not our fault that some of the people in this state are as bright as the students she was trying to teach. I think her point was well-taken.

Of course she is right. We greet the world like we are bulls in china shops and then want to fix things the same way. That's because egos run our country, not caring honesty. It has been that way for 50 years and we are now paying the price of arrogant, pushy, marine-brain officials. Thanks (Sen. Murray, for stating) what needed to be said to our youth for years.

Lee Courtney is very much against her views; she's way off-base and shows appalling ignorance of the U.S. foreign aid for decades and the large state donor and private aid and so forth. Shapley got it much more correct in the P-I. I was too upset to write earlier. The series of letters you ran on Dec. 26 were all very good.

I am 100 percent for Patty Murray. She is correct in saying what is behind the Muslims' popularity. Just on a one-to-one personal basis, Muslims will frequently show friendship to a degree unheard of in a convincing American practice. Just one to one, they make friends by their concern and care.

Patti Murray is right. Students should be taught to think, not to parrot what they hear.

I believe that Sen. Patty Murray exhibited great courage and intelligence in voicing her ideas to the students . . .. Perhaps if our country had paid more attention to this type of information we wouldn't be planning a war today.

Our schools today need to have ideas presented to them that will encourage thought, exploration of ideas and beliefs and courage to see the other side of the picture. With today's "dumbing down" of society, our students need all of the encouragement they can get.

I realize that the far right must have suffered a terrible loss with Trent Lott being forced out of leadership, but manufacturing outrage over perfectly reasonable statements by Senator Murray simply will not work. It is one thing to get outraged at Trent Lott's racist innuendo; it is something entirely different to pop a blood vessel over someone asking children to consider why people in other countries might possibly have positive feelings toward bin Laden. Here's the scoop, guys: there are people in the world who do think Osama bin Laden is worth supporting, whether we like it or not. You can choose to explore the reasons why, or you can blindly label everyone who does not hate bin Laden as "evil" and "terrorist" and grab the nearest weapon to threaten them or kill them. . . .

Understanding should not be mistaken with conceding or praising. It's possible to understand something you hate or fear: When doctors try to understand the mechanisms of disease, nobody accuses them of heaping praise on the virus.

Senator Murray was using her teaching skills in her discussion of U.S. vs. Osama's friendship opportunities in Afghanistan. If the students were interested and followed up on her remarks, they would then have done some real research and found, perhaps, that she had made some factual errors -- or not. Perhaps they would have found that we did more than Osama -- or not. The point is that she didn't expect the students to listen to a lecture and pass a test on "facts." She wanted them to think and learn which, in my view, is the best education. A really good teacher does not object when a student finds that he or she is wrong, but beams with pleasure in the learning process.

Of course Sen. Murray was right in trying to stimulate debate about Americans' proclivity for sticking their collective heads deep in the sand, and the consequences thereof. Those conservatives and pundits who have excoriated her for properly doing her job are the very same intellectual lights leading the charge toward war, the privatizing of Social Security (have you checked the stock market lately?), the trashing of environmental laws, and all the rest of the loony right-wing agenda.

One more YES vote for Patty Murray. She spoke facts. How unfortunate that so many cannot see, nor embrace the facts that services provided to the masses are good investments. Hopefully our government will begin to assign a higher priority to People rather than Profits.

I think that Sen. Murray was absolutely right in the remarks she made to the Vancouver high school students. I am saddened by the self-righteousness of those who criticize her, including today's (Jan. 1) editorial column by Mr. Shapley. The leaders of the United States are behaving like bullies in the school yard, alienating all Muslims, instead of consolidating the goodwill that could have been ours after 9-11.

In a word, Sen. Murray was "right on the mark." I do not know how much Osama bin Laden has helped pay for schools, roads, or day care centers. I suspect there is at least some truth to the claim. Obviously, the point that Sen. Murray was attempting to make is that this wealthy country could do a lot more for indigent peoples of this world than we do. And it is a failure in foreign policy of the United States not to address the needs and concerns of other countries more than we do. Such failures have resulted in overall hatred of the United States among millions and millions of people in the world. . . .

I am proud to have Sen. Murray as my senator. Particularly of late, she is showing strong signs of being an effective and thoughtful leader. One can see evidence of this in her opposition to giving the president "carte blanche" to wage an extremely questionable war in Iraq as well as her thought-provoking dialogue with the Vancouver high school students.

Sen. Murray was right on the money with her comments, as has been confirmed by a number of sources. We desperately need opportunities to make our young people think critically about the world situation. And they won't get what they need from the evening news. . . .

Another example of this phenomena is the Palestinian organization Hamas that has sponsored the suicide bombings in the Middle East. It is so difficult to find people who will turn their backs on them because they have taken care of their people with educational and health opportunities. This does not justify their actions, but it does make more clear why people often support them.

Wrong in two senses, general meaning and factual. First: Wrong in general, the flavor of her comments, in general . . . that the United States does less than it should around the world and even less in comparison with an evil terrorist. . . . In truth the USA is the only country in history that uses her power not for empire, not for conquest, not for exploitation . . . but to promote freedom, general welfare, and peace. . . .

Second, wrong in fact. I commend Thomas Shapely for a good presentation of the facts, however, most of your writers and Sen. Murray have got it wrong . . .. The United States does provide tremendous aid to poor and developing areas of the world, by both private and government sectors. Something that no one has mentioned, the U.S. military provides significant aid to the countries they visit.

There was no "right or wrong" to her statement, which in fact was directed at honor students who have the capacity to consider commentary from a third-party distance.

Patty Murray was absolutely right in making her comments regarding Osama bin Laden and why he is popular in poor countries. I totally commend her for doing so. And I am especially glad she chose to do this in one of our high schools, where students are (hopefully) being trained to think about issues from all sides.

The conservative voices so upset with Murray do not seem to be arguing that what she says is not true, the unspoken understanding seems to be that it is true. They are enraged simply because she has SAID it. If our elected officials are no longer allowed to state facts, unpleasant or not, without being verbally strung-up for stating them, then how are we supposed to react in an honest way with the world? Can any democracy continue to survive if it repeatedly chooses to operate in a state of complete illusion?

I don't for a moment believe Sen. Murray meant that Osama bin Laden is praiseworthy, nor do I think she is hinting that the U.S. could have avoided the 2001 attacks. She was not calling him a humanitarian but was suggesting that we see how he is perceived from another point of view -- that he has been winning the public relations war in the Arabic-speaking world.

However, I think her final analysis was wrong, and based upon incorrect inferences drawn from misinterpreted data.

It is clear that (bin Laden) has not been praised for humanitarian work in the Arab press, nor has he been praised for bringing aid. Interviews with the "Arab street" from Reuters, AP, NPR, Frontline, ABC and so forth have all cited his "strong stand against the U.S. and Zionists," with no mention of hospitals or day care centers. If Murray was correct, wouldn't that be the among the things they would mention?

It is a tenet of Islam to give alms to charity. I do not doubt that some of the terrorist funds (bin Laden) has garnered, as well as some of his own money, have been donated to local charities. It is clear from the evidence that he has not been a dedicated humanitarian, devoting time and resources to "infrastructure" improvements, but just donating money. The Wahhabi all-male schools that he's contributed to will not prepare the students for the 21st century, but for medievalism and jihad.

It is also clear that U.S. charitable works do not necessarily win praise or trust overseas. It is not difficult to find many that claim Western charity is actually a devious political scheme, that medical workers are spies for the CIA, etc. A Lebanese man murdered a volunteer nurse in Sidon less than a month ago. In Jibla, Yemen, last week, three American volunteer medical workers were murdered; the assassin's motivations were religious. The American-built and operated hospital has been serving poor Yemenis for 35 years.

Sen. Murray should not be blamed for asking us to consider why (bin Laden) has gained fame, and to see how we can beat him at his own game. However, she is wrong if she thinks massive donations and aid will accomplish this purpose. We cannot ever win the love of those overseas -- if liberating a country like Kuwait from Saddam, liberating the Afghan people from the Taliban, doesn't win us a favorable view at the cost of American lives, nothing will.

In regard to Sen. Patty Murray, I suggest everyone read Thomas Shapley and I agree with him: She was totally wrong.

I definitely want to say Patty Murray was right in her comments. For many, the truth really hurts and I hope somebody understands her intentions.

Have we really come to the point where our elected officials can no longer pose questions for debate, and therefore challenge people to think about our country's domestic and foreign policies? If this is the case, then I weep for the future. Sen. Murray never commended Osama bin Laden; she only asked the students to think about his popularity in the Middle East and to question American involvement in the region.

Sen. Murray's comments, when in context, explained to the children, and anyone else, why Osama bin Laden holds the hearts of people in many countries. Control the schools and one controls the minds of the young. Murray is a greater patriot than her critics.

Patty Murray's remarks were right on the money! As long as our country continues to gobble up way more than our share of the world's resources we will be regarded in many places as a bunch of bullies. We leave ourselves open to propaganda, especially in Muslim countries, as only wanting to grab their resources and in the process destroy their culture and religion. It is time for us to start thinking and acting more responsibly.

We are told that Patty Murray intended to be provocative in her discussion of Mr. Bin Laden vs. the U.S. at a Vancouver high school. It's easy to be provocative -- any little kid can achieve that by yelling his newest bad words at his mother's tea party. But she is given credit for contributing to education and causing students to think. Did she really? In her provocations, she fed them some questionable facts (day care centers for Muslims who don't let women work outside the house? What for?) and excluded any mention of decades of U.S. funding of the same sort of infrastructure in dozens of countries -- none of whom seem to love us for it, as she claims Osama's recipients love him. Her only mention of the U.S. was as simply a bombing menace -- nice and provocative, but far from the whole story.

It would seem that the majority of the folks who posted their opinion at the Seattle Lack-Of-Intelligencer are supportive of Patty bin Murray and her traitorous statements. Any opinions on just what is wrong with these brain-dead boobs?

It would seem that the majority of the folks who posted their opinion at the Seattle Lack-Of-Intelligencer are supportive of Patty bin Murray and her traitorous statements.

Remember it's Seattle. After his trip to Bagdad, Jim McDermott took 75% of the vote.

>>Patty Murray's remarks were right on the money! As long as our country continues to gobble up way more than our share of the world's resources we will be regarded in many places as a bunch of bullies. We leave ourselves open to propaganda, especially in Muslim countries, as only wanting to grab their resources and in the process destroy their culture and religion. It is time for us to start thinking and acting more responsibly.

Now THAT'S a liberal.

Thanks for the post.

It seems that Patty Murray reflects the beliefs of many young people in Seattle.

How ignorant.

How sad.

Remember it's Seattle...

An extension of Canada.

Keerist, if we started a giveaway of the states that are unamerican, there wouldn't be much left...population wise. Oregon, Cali, Fla, all of the Northwest...damn.

Of the 14 women quoted, 12 supported Murray

I'm impressed you counted them :-)

our share of the world's resources

So who gets to determine what exactly is "our share"? Some Soviet-style planning commission?

In a word, Sen. Murray was "right on the mark."

Not gonna say "a word". :D

No, these are the opinions the paper CHOSE to print. Howeve, it may be time to disinherit the Northwest. Let Bin Laden pay for their schools and clinics.

So many males with the name "Robert" are dumb. There was a Robert in the article, praising Murray. Any Roberts out there who can break this spell? Every Robert I have ever known has been a mean stupid liar.

She should move there and see how much good will bin Laden spreads on her!

-- Dan & Barb

I LOVE that one! Send Murray to live in a bin Laden run country and see how much she likes it. She not only won't be allowed to run for Senator, she won't be allowed to get an education, drive, talk out loud, go out in public without a male escort, wear LOUD shoes, and she will have to wear a burka!!!! Now THAT might be an improvement on her looks, but I don't think this NAG would like giving up all of her women's lib!!!!!!!!!!!

Every freedom these brain dead enablers (especially women) enjoy, including speech, was absent in Patty (D-Osama) Murray's Taliban paradise called Afghanistan.

I'm surprised Patty Murray (D-Osama) hasn't denounced Todd Beamer for causing the plane to go down before it reached it's final destination.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.