Posted on 12/23/2002 8:02:48 AM PST by dead
More than a quarter of Church of England clergy do not believe in the virgin birth of Christ, a survey has found.
A poll of 500 clerics found that 27per cent privately reject the traditional story of Jesus's birth, which forms a key part of the Nativity.
The view of one Hampshire vicar was typical. "There was nothing special about his birth or his childhood - it was his adult life that was extraordinary," he said.
He declined to be named, saying: "I have a very traditional bishop and this is one of those topics I do not go public on. I need to keep the job I have got."
The survey, carried out for the London Daily Telegraph, will dismay traditionalists inside and outside the Church of England. Many of the sceptics who took part in the survey said the story of the virgin birth was a product of poor biblical translations and literary tradition rather than divine intervention.
The Rev Dr Keith Archer, of Salford, said: "It is not particularly important because it is a debatable translation of a Hebrew prophecy which first appeared in Isaiah."
Another vicar added: "Writers at the time used to stress a person's importance by making up stories about their early life. I think that is exactly what has happened here."
Most of those who doubt the virgin birth agreed they would be presiding over traditional Christmas services that stressed the miraculous nature of Christ's birth.
Dr Archer said: "We will be having a traditional service because that is what people expect and enjoy. There are times and places for this debate."
A colleague added: "I do not believe in the virgin birth but I would not argue for that point of view in a sermon because I simply don't believe it is that important an issue."
Traditionalists seized upon the survey's findings as evidence of a church in decline.
John Roberts, who heads the Lord's Day Observance Society, said: "If you take away the virgin birth you might as well take away the entire Christian message. The miracle of the Christian faith is that God came down to us. If you lose that miracle you lose the resurrection and everything else."
The survey did find some comfort for traditionalists: 64per cent of those arguing against the idea of a virgin birth still believed in some sort of resurrection of Christ, whether physical or otherwise.
Mat 1:. The Birth of Jesus Christ
18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[3] because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[4] --which means, "God with us."
24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus
More like PC "wisdom". If Christ Jesus had a human father, then mankind would have no savior. Discrediting Jesus' Divine nature is in satan's all time top ten list of deceptions.
Why anyone would attend a "religious" service led by such anti-Christians is waaay beyond me. What could anyone with such compromised beliefs offer a congregation? It definitely could not be any form of hope.
Needs to keep the job he has got, indeed! Even if he has to lie about having the basic qualifications for the job.
C.S. Lewis had these guys pegged fifty years ago, with the Apostate Bishop in "The Great Divorce". This is nothing new, and is one of the main reasons for the precipitous decline of the Anglican church in England.
I disagree with the idea that allowing this sort of nonsense ensures that there will be plenty of priests. As the Anglican hierarchy has become more and more accepting of deviation from the doctrines of the faith, even to denying the divinity of Christ and the Resurrection, the number of Anglican priests in vocations has declined, NOT increased. Why take on a difficult job that requires a significant loss of income compared to secular work, if your own bosses don't believe what they're supposed to be advocating?
It would be like going to work as a salesman for a company that cynically acknowledged its products were valueless, but kept on telling you to sell them to a gullible public anyhow. A good salesman won't work for a company if he can't believe in the product he sells.
Luke 1
The Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" ( note: Would the question make sense if Mary were asking how is this to take place if I am only a young girl ? She was old enough to mary and have children.)
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."
38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.
A clergy person could say and believe the Apostles creed or the Nicene Creed which spell out the "minimum" faith and still question the virgin birth. For example, the Nicene creed merely says Jesus was incarnate from the Virgin Mary. It leaves open the exact method of becoming "incarnate" and Mary's becoming pregnant. Likewise the Apostle's creed reads "He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.".
What the clergy person cannot do is be disobedient to his bishop. The man swore an oath of obedience and he rightfully assumed his Bishop would not want him speaking his viewpoints on this issue in public if they contradicted his own. Even it the Bishop might be Ok with him doing so but he might be upset that he did so without permission. It would be a subordinate act.
No "scholars" think this. Its absurd when taken in context with everything else. In any case, to conclude otherwise requires the "scholar" to pick and chose which scripture is real and which is a lie.
In Church is called incense.
Maybe you can get the churches to stop burning it. They are so inconciderate.
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