Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Black Crunch jams Universal cycle [Cosmology]
Nature Magazine ^ | 23 Decemeber 2002 | PHILIP BALL

Posted on 12/22/2002 6:07:08 PM PST by PatrickHenry

Space might end up dark, thick and boring.

The Universe is not as bouncy as some think, say two physicists. If a Big Crunch follows the Big Bang, it may get stuck that way for ever1.

A fluid of black holes would bung up space. There would be nothing to drive another Big Bang, and nowhere else to go. The Universe would be, you might say, stuffed.

In a bouncing universe, all the matter currently flying apart slows until it reverses and falls towards a Big Crunch. Some physicists think this could ignite another Big Bang, in an unending sequence of expansion and contraction.

An idea called M-theory suggests how the switch from crunch to bang could happen2. The details depend on the shape of space: whether it is infinite and flat, or finite and curved like the surface of a balloon or a doughnut.

Thomas Banks of Rutgers University, New Jersey, and Willy Fischler of the University of Texas at Austin have considered a flat, infinite space in which particles get ever closer and ever denser.

In a space with such features, the smallest kinks in density are amplified into black holes, the densest objects in the Universe. So the whole of space-time would congeal into a very lumpy soup - a black crunch.

"We don't really know what this fluid is made out of," Fischler admits. But he and Banks argue that it may reach a pressure at which it cannot become any denser. At this point, the speed of sound equals the speed of light. Deadlock results.

No theory can cope with a Big Crunch. Because of this, says Fischler, the analysis that he and Banks have performed remains speculative. And a doughnut-shaped Universe could meet a quite different fate, he adds.

References:

1. Banks, T. & Fishler, W. Black Crunch. Preprint http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/0212113, (2002). |Article|
2. Khoury, J., Ovrut, B. A., Seiberg, N., Steinhardt, P. J. & Turok, N. From Big Crunch to Big Bang. Preprint http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/0108187, (2002). |Article|
[See the original article for links in the footnotes]


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bigbang; bigcrunch; blackhole; cosmology; crevolist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 281-285 next last
To: Doctor Stochastic
placeholder bump
161 posted on 12/23/2002 7:33:20 AM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: All
Oh, dear.

Dear lurkers:
The answer given by MacDorcha (8.6 ft) was right, but only the good Lord knows how MacDorcha computed it. The simplest way is to look up the sine of a 60 degree angle. If you're not equipped for that, there's another way. The other angle is 30 degrees, and most can remember enough high school trig (sine of 30 degrees is 5) to know how far the base of that the ladder is from the wall -- an even 5 feet. So even without some handy trig tables (or a slide rule which has them built in), one could rely on the ol' Pythagorean theorem to bang out the height, as we already know two of the sides of the triangle.

162 posted on 12/23/2002 7:34:21 AM PST by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: Sentis
Not all that much use speculating about this until we know for certain what the shape of the universe is.

I think we can safely conclude that it's Bush's fault for not following the Kyoto protocols.

163 posted on 12/23/2002 7:44:43 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
The simplest way is to look up the sine of a 60 degree angle. If you're not equipped for that, there's another way.

Even $5 calculators have "SIN" buttons nowadays. But I'd give him the points: usually when a student pokes the "SIN" button, the answer he writes down is 0.8666666.

164 posted on 12/23/2002 8:14:38 AM PST by Physicist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
Even $5 calculators have "SIN" buttons nowadays.

You wippersnappers have it too darned easy! Buncha button pushers! Snort, grumble, harumph ...

165 posted on 12/23/2002 8:35:16 AM PST by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: RadioAstronomer
Depends if you are looking for area or diameter

Sigh! See what happens when you post late at night after a long weekend! :-(

Should have read circumference. (feel like a fool! LOL)

166 posted on 12/23/2002 8:44:19 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
What is it that some people, when they solve an equation for a given geometry they then have to have an article in Nature and say what will ultimately happen to the universe?
167 posted on 12/23/2002 9:03:37 AM PST by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"Everybody wants to get into the act!"
-- Jimmy Durante
168 posted on 12/23/2002 9:07:36 AM PST by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: MacDorcha
if it has no sides, how do you know it's expanding?

The isotropic 2.7 deg. K Cosmic Microwave Backround radiation is consistent with a Universe that is expanding...

The recession of distant galaxies (again, isotropic), is consistent with an expanding Universe.

"sides" of the universe have nothing to do with it.

how do we know it isnt just some phenomonom that causes movements around us?

Because if it were a localized motion effect, it wouldn't be isotropic; we would appear to be moving away from some distant celestial objects, but towards others.

or... that this system is contracting?

Because we don't see any evidence for an isotropic blue shift.

saying it has no sides down plays the big bang theory

BB Cosmology says nothing about the Universe having "sides" (boundaries). An unbounded Universe is entirely consistent with BB Cosmology.

169 posted on 12/23/2002 10:02:42 AM PST by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Are you sure that wasn't a NESTLE's Crunch??
170 posted on 12/23/2002 10:21:31 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MacDorcha
i happen to be in college, and could not have gotten there without passing algebra, geometry, and trigonomitry.

You passed Trigonometry?

171 posted on 12/23/2002 10:23:52 AM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

"Bump" to an entertaining read. Although, it would be nice to read some discussion regarding the substance of the original article.

RadioAstronomer, you are a class act.

Square root of three, divided by two will get you the ladder answer, exactly.

172 posted on 12/23/2002 10:52:22 AM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
You passed Trigonometry?

Hard to believe he passed English. Maybe he slept away in those classes too.

173 posted on 12/23/2002 11:15:41 AM PST by balrog666
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
"Is this not also true of the gravitational force on the moon? Why doesn't it stop?"

actually, it is slowing down. very slowly, but it is doing so. it's about as noticeable as glass ripples.
174 posted on 12/23/2002 12:33:42 PM PST by MacDorcha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
look, it was 1100 pm when i wrote that. cut me a break. i do things besides listen to people whine about the occasional typo.
175 posted on 12/23/2002 12:38:03 PM PST by MacDorcha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: MacDorcha
5 cubed root.. sorry, just now read the babble i wrote at 2 am... man, it's been a long day
176 posted on 12/23/2002 12:42:04 PM PST by MacDorcha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: MacDorcha
There would be nothing to drive another Big Bang, and nowhere else to go

Who says? It all started spontaneously in the beginning, why couldn't it do it again huh?

ahem...

177 posted on 12/23/2002 12:43:03 PM PST by Terriergal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
the point of speculation, is that no one is wrong. its jsut the accounts of individuals over time, but everyone's accounst differm, along with mind-set, and society surrounding them. i dont mind you knocking me, but please, let me know its in fun if it's in fun.
178 posted on 12/23/2002 12:43:55 PM PST by MacDorcha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
"Who says? It all started spontaneously in the beginning, why couldn't it do it again huh?"

well, if there is a crunch, then there is a force slowing the expansion of the universe enough to bring the universe crashing into itself again. if there is something acting against the explosion, then the universe is losing energy with each passing moment. if two opposite powers work against each other of equal strength, then the median is the only outcome. the median in this case would be no expanding, no contracting, nothing.
179 posted on 12/23/2002 12:51:10 PM PST by MacDorcha
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: Cboldt
it would be nice to read some discussion regarding the substance of the original article.

We see the DOE supported some of this work. Aside from that, would the assumption of an infinite, flat universe make this any more than an academic exercise?

180 posted on 12/23/2002 12:53:15 PM PST by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 172 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 281-285 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson