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Microsoft to offer Linux software
Reuters via CNN ^ | December 10, 2002 | Reuters

Posted on 12/11/2002 3:59:07 AM PST by canuck_conservative

In a major strategy shift, Microsoft Corp. will introduce software based on the Linux open source operating system in 2004 for Web services and server software, market researcher META Group predicted on Monday.

Microsoft, which denied that it had any plans to develop software for Linux, is facing a growing threat from the open source software standard as it gains share in the corporate server market used to manage networks and data.

META Group predicted that Linux will be used on nearly half of new servers by 2007, up from its current share of 15 to 20 percent, making it difficult for Microsoft to ignore Linux as a platform for its database, Web hosting and e-mail server applications.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Technical
KEYWORDS: computers; linux; microsoft
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To: Pyrion
Uhm, release of source code for an application is not necessary under the GNU. The LINUX OS is free under GNU, but applications that run under LINUX need not provide source code as I've understood the conversation.

Codeweavers does not release the source code for their enhanced WINE development products (Crossover Office, developed for $$) though they do release WINE itself (developed under a separate GNU) , and NetTraverse does not release the source code Win4Lin ($$), and NVidia doesn't even release the source code for their X video drivers (to protect trade secrets).

Penguin People - please correct me if I'm wrong.

21 posted on 12/11/2002 5:31:18 AM PST by PokeyJoe
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To: HiTech RedNeck; TechJunkYard; Knitebane; B Knotts; Common Tator


Image from CNN

Why does this image make my eyes widen?

Birth of Tha SYNDICATE
101 things that the Mozilla browser can do that Internet Explorer cannot.

22 posted on 12/11/2002 5:34:40 AM PST by rdb3
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To: All
Who in the Hell is the 'META' Group?

Has anyone ever heard of them before?

This is either:

  1. Someone in an unknown consulting agency asking, "How can we get a ton of free advertising? I know, make an outrageous prediction and release a 'report' to the news media!"

  2. A trial-balloon by MS, another attempt to reach out to the independent developer community (who currently won't work with MS solutions on a bet and wiew MS the way the independent voters view the D party) thru false advertising (like the rash of recent falsified, MS-bought 'studies' showing Linux is cheaper, .NET is faster, etc). MS is clearly currently engaging in a massive media campaign of disinformation and propaganda, so this could very well just be another brick in that wall.

  3. A sure sign that this 'META' Group is actually a crack house.

It's possible that MS will port IE, Office, or a few other pieces of software to Linux eventually. MS is the proverbial 'house of cards', most divisions operate at a massive loss which is paid for by the 85% profit margin their monopolization of the market produces.

If/when that profit margin slips, with all other divisions losing hundreds of millions a year, the entire thing will implode very, very quickly.

So eventually MS will start looking for additional revenue, and porting their software to Linux will eventually be forced on them.

But I doubt it will be soon . . . Just My Humble Opinion.

23 posted on 12/11/2002 5:44:46 AM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: rdb3
More likely theones who make that claim will see it as gates trying to "subvert" the socialists. I'm not buying into that line of reasoning.

That said, it leads me to seriously question Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's Findings of "Fact" in the whole damn case. Who says the market won't find a solution to a monopoly?
24 posted on 12/11/2002 5:46:59 AM PST by hchutch
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To: PokeyJoe
You're right. Oracle will happily sell you their database running on linux, but don't expect to see the source code.

All these META guys are saying, and it makes some sense, is that if linux in fact achieves something like 50% market share on servers, Microsoft would be foolish to ignore that as a market for things like Exchange and SQL Server. They're right. It's probably one of those things, though, that Microsoft will deny right up until the day they announce it's ready to ship.

This business of trying to Dominate Ze Vorld by tying all your products together in unique and wonderful ways has its place as a marketing strategy, but as IBM learned the hard way many years ago, the bigger you get the harder it becomes to keep it going.

A big part of the "IBM renaissance" under Gerstner was losing that idea and moving to a strategy of having point products that were excellent at what they did, and could stand on their own in any environment. You want NT? They'll sell you NT. You want linux? They'll sell you linux. The OS/390 guys can squawk all they want; the WebSphere and DB/2 guys do not have to cripple their own products in order to make OS/390 look good. I think Microsoft will have as hard a time with this transition as IBM did... it is a tough thing to implement in a big-company culture. But sooner or later, they're going to have to learn how.

25 posted on 12/11/2002 6:02:00 AM PST by Nick Danger
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To: Pyrion
I wonder if Microsoft will honor the GNU license and provide its source code free-of-charge...

Java anyone?

26 posted on 12/11/2002 6:25:12 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: Nick Danger
You must be an IBM'er.

This is going to be a long thread.

27 posted on 12/11/2002 6:36:44 AM PST by austinite
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To: Nick Danger
The OS/390 guys can squawk all they want; the WebSphere and DB/2 guys do not have to cripple their own products in order to make OS/390 look good.

Nick, I'm a little slow on the uptake today (as always) and I don't understand your point. Can you elucidate?

28 posted on 12/11/2002 6:41:34 AM PST by OKSooner
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To: Dominic Harr
It's possible that MS will port IE, Office, or a few other pieces of software to Linux eventually. MS is the proverbial 'house of cards', most divisions operate at a massive loss which is paid for by the 85% profit margin their monopolization of the market produces.

The article is pure speculation. From the source:

"I'm unaware of any efforts at this time to move any products onto Linux," said Peter Houston, senior director at Microsoft's server group, adding that there were no plans to detach or re-price its Windows server operating system.

"We have made a bet on Windows, and we believe that customers are getting value from the bet we made," said Houston, "and we're going to continue doing what we've been doing for customers."

29 posted on 12/11/2002 7:08:15 AM PST by dread78645
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To: OKSooner
Can you elucidate?

Sure. Let's put it in Microsoft terms. Suppose the day comes when Microsoft realizes that they are leaving money on the table by refusing to sell SQL Server on linux. All the high-end linux database business is going to Oracle or DB/2.

So the SQL Server team gets the green light to produce a linux version. Let's say that in early testing, it becomes clear that the linux version of SQL Server will beat the Windows version of SQL Server in benchmarks. This is when the moment of truth arrives. Is the SQL Server team allowed to go to market with a product that will win business for itself against Oracle and DB/2, at the expense of making a sister product look bad?

Different companies have different philosophies about this. In the old days at IBM, they wouldn't have let that product out the door until the OS/390 version ran faster, even if that meant crippling the linux version. I suspect the same thing would occur in Microsoft today.

Once you get to a certain size, a strategy of trying to maintain advantage with a "total package" offering becomes very difficult to execute. There are always going to be point-product specialists out there who have better offerings for a specific task than the "total package" guy. Oracle is such a vendor. IBM apparently has the cat's meow of web application servers in Web Sphere (which will not stop some clown from coming in here to say it sucks... but it is clearly doing well out in the market, as is Oracle).

The point is, there are natural limits to the growth one can expect as a "total package" vendor. There is a segment that wants that, and they will become "Microsoft shops" or "IBM shops," but they are only a fraction of the market. To get beyond them, you have to be able to beat the point-product guys in their specialties... and that is tough. You can't do that and tailor your point product to your other offerings. You have to be willing to go pedal-to-the-metal to make your point product shine on some other guy's platform. That's not a technical problem so much as it is a corporate-culture problem. Microsoft is nowhere near that kind of culture today.

30 posted on 12/11/2002 7:09:18 AM PST by Nick Danger
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To: Nick Danger
Uh mmmm ....

>> All the high-end linux database business is going to Oracle or DB/2.

and the low end goes to www.MySQL.com.

So M$ goes where?

But the good news is you will be able to buy a ms proggie on and OS that runs. That's is big news.

snooker
Penguins are forever. M$ is just a fading fad.
31 posted on 12/11/2002 7:18:35 AM PST by snooker
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To: snooker
So M$ goes where?

On a level playing field such as linux, SQL Server would win its share against Oracle and DB/2. It is not without features, and there are people who like it.

It's just that if I've got 10,000 servers and I'm looking at a half-million dollars in Windows licenses just to use SQL Server, I might conclude that Oracle on linux was plenty good. The truth is, all those high-end databases have more features than anybody needs, and whoever is winning the benchmarks this week will be losing them next week. It's a fairly vigorous competition.

32 posted on 12/11/2002 7:30:41 AM PST by Nick Danger
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To: Nick Danger
Nick, I agree with what you said

>> all those high-end databases have more features than anybody needs

And this can be repeated for practically every app, like ms-office as an example. Does any user actually know what all those features do? Or do they just want to type a nice looking letter?

Users want to get their jobs done and not spend their lives installing upgrades, reading howto books or sitting in training classes.

I think this is why there is a big push most everywhere for open software.

Using the right tool(size and complexity) is the right answer for most people. Unfortunately for ms you don't get to sell them an upgrade every year.

The open software movement is going to force software to free, and software vendors to supply value to customers not upgrades. The Linux vendors are quickly learning the pay for support bbses with tech support people on board, and patch/fixes support/downloads will get you paying customers.

I have no doubt that on a level playing field, ms sql server would win it's share. But 85% profit margins aren't going to survive.

vi still works and if you knew how to use it in 1985, it still works the same way today. It is the right tool, for some tasks.

snooker
Penguins are forever. M$ is just a fading fad.
33 posted on 12/11/2002 7:48:38 AM PST by snooker
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To: PokeyJoe
>> Uhm, release of source code for an application is not necessary under the GNU. The LINUX OS is free under GNU, but applications that run under LINUX need not provide source code as I've understood the conversation.

Correct. You can do anything you want with 'your' software. This applys as long as it does not involve modifed open source software. So something like ms sql server would be fine if sold in penguin versions. Oracle does this today.

snooker
Penguins are forever. M$ is just a fading fad.
34 posted on 12/11/2002 7:52:42 AM PST by snooker
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To: Pyrion
The GNU license only applies to software licensed under it. Microsoft is free to sell proprietary software that runs on Linux. Many vendors already do.

The GPL would only affect them if they tried to release their own Linux kernel, incorporated some GPL code into their software, or linked to a GPLd library (most libraries are LGPLd to allow linking by proprietary software).

35 posted on 12/11/2002 8:37:49 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: Dominic Harr
Finally, we agree on something.
36 posted on 12/11/2002 9:03:17 AM PST by Bush2000
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To: Nick Danger
A. This article is pure speculation.

B. If or when Linux becomes viable, then any company would be foolish to overlook it.

C. I wouldn't expect MS to port desktop apps to Linux. Perhaps SQL Server. Perhaps Exchange. But not Office. The desktop Linux market is too small. And I don't buy the argument that MS can build the market. That is a non-starter.
37 posted on 12/11/2002 9:11:36 AM PST by Bush2000
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To: canuck_conservative
The dirty little secret is that a large part of what MS purveys has been ripped off work from unix and internet for years.
38 posted on 12/11/2002 9:20:03 AM PST by flamefront
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To: flamefront
The dirty little secret is that a large part of what MS purveys has been ripped off work from unix and internet for years.

Why is that a "dirty little secret"? BSD is free. Anyone can use it. You can. I can. Where's the problem?
39 posted on 12/11/2002 9:50:55 AM PST by Bush2000
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To: Clara Lou
"I've just ordered Mandrake 9.0 and a removable hard drive. I know nothing about Linux, but I'm ready to get away from Microsoft."

Having installed and used most of the major distributions and some of the more obscure ones, I'm confident that you will enjoy Mandrake. The learning curve will be there, but once you "get it", you won't look back. Congratulations for shedding the tinker-toy baby OS for a real one, and may the source be with you.
40 posted on 12/11/2002 10:39:59 AM PST by SpaceBar
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