Posted on 11/29/2002 5:36:44 AM PST by dennisw
| 11/27/02 Immigrants Leaving Mounds of Trash on Tohono O'Odham Indian Sacred Lands By Paul Cicala The Tohono O'Odham Nation faces an environmental crisis. Every day, nearly 1,500 undocumented immigrants pass through the U.S.'s second largest indian reservation, leaving thousands of pounds of trash on tribal lands. News 13 recently got a first-hand look at some of the areas on the reservation that appear more like a trash dump than sacred lands. Piles of trash grow to mounds of trash on the Tohono O'Odham lands. In the process of searching for the American dream, some immigrants are trashing Arizona. Henry A. Ramon, Vice Chairman for the Tohono O'Odham Nation, says, "Mother Earth is something very sacred, and here we see trash all over it." Some sacred areas on the Tohono O'Odham Indian reservation larger than the size of a football field are littered with thousands of pounds of trash left behind by illegal border crossers. Gerry Carrasco, a U.S. Border Patrol Agent in the Tucson Sector says, "This trash that they leave. This stuff isn't gonna go away any time soon. Who cleans it up?" Ramon says, "It's the responsibility of the federal government." Ramon says his people shouldn't be left with the burden of dealing with the mounds of trash. The Tohono O'Odham Nation shares a 71-mile-border with Mexico. Ramon says it's a federal border so it's also a problem of the federal government. "With the amount of immigrants crossing our land every day, we just can't handle it. We just don't have the manpower," says Ramon. The Tohono O'Odham Nation is the second largest reservation in the country, with a population of 22,000. Nearly 2,000 tribal members live south of the border. Border crossers enter the reservation from Mexico on foot, and form makeshift camps near major pickup points for coyotes, or undocumented immigrant smugglers. Carrasco adds, "They get to here (a spot about 30 miles north of the Sonora/Arizona border), and basically from here is where they're gonna load up. So, they don't need the extra clothes and water jugs. They leave trash here, because there's no where to put it as they get loaded up." Ramon says, "It's a sore eye to go down the road and see all this trash." Tohono O'Odham officials estimate each undocumented immigrant leaves behind more than 8 pounds of litter. With nearly 1,500 crossing tribal lands every day, that amounts to 13,000 thousand pounds a day, and almost 5 million pounds a year. Tribal leaders are asking the federal, state and county governments to get involved. However, Ramon says it's an uphill battle. "We do try to clean what we can, but, still we're overwhelmed," says Ramon. If there's no solution soon, Ramon fears the "Mother Earth" that he and other tribal leaders worked so hard to preserve for future generations could all be thrown away. O'Odham officials say, at this time, they still haven't received any indication that the federal, state and county government will help economically, or by providing manpower to clean the trash up. Thousands of O'Odham tribal members also live in Mexico on native lands south of the border. Mexican officials say those areas are also being trashed by border crossers.
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YOU
Proudofthesouth for President!
It might be possible to write something more stupid. It would take some work, but it might be possible.
I'll leave that work to you guys.
First let me say, a person comes into a country illegally, manages to get everything given to him and then you think they can't avoid taxes - wow? Are you familiar with 'getting paid under the table'? Are you familiar with 'contract labor'? Most of these people are either working for cash or contract labor. Contract labor means you flash them a SS #. They write you a check at the end of th week for all of your money - NOTHING IS WITHHELD - and they supposedly file a 1099 witht he IRS at the end of the year and send on to the employee. They do not have to obey many of our laws - you know they don't carry auto insurance, or have their cars inspected - heck, they don't even bag their trash in a lot of places.Now consider - do you really think these folks, who are here illegally, are getting everything given to them by the taxpayers and protected by our government, are going to pay the required income taxes and the self-employment SS tax? Now that is just a gnat too big for any thinking person to swallow.
Yes, they pay sales tax on what they purchase. They buy much of their clothing at garage sales, and many churches and charitable organizations give them clothing They simply do not spend as much as most people.
Now one other gnat to swallow - how in the world can these people obey all the laws, add so much to economy, pay all the taxes we citizens pay - and still have enough money to send home to Mexico, constituting 1/3 of the national economy for them. Just does not compute.
No, you might get some people to believe that - but those of us who live with them know the truth - and for those who don't know - I hope they will pay attention to the ones who do live it everyday of our lives.
[They are generally very decent people.]
A really broad statement there. Some are good people - many are not. I have dealt with more thieves in the illegal community than I can count - mostly the women and children. But they are all illegal!!!
[ They are also potential Republicans.]
Only if the Republican party continues to up the ante of freebies to keep the votes. They will vote the benefits and pandering - so where does that leave the Republicans - you know the ones who pay the taxes and are paying for those benefits and pandering?
[ They have family values that would put most of us to shame.]
Sorry, another broad statement that simply is not true. Some are good folks, some are not. I have not found their family values to be any better, in fact, if teaching your children to get all the freebies and to steal all you can is family values - then I will agree. NOw I have met some who are good and honest - but not all and not the majority.
[ All we really need to do is to teach them to speak English and to be fair with them.]
Now why should we have to teach them to speak English and how much fairer should we be. We are losing our schools, and the elderly are losing their homes to pay the taxes, President Bush is going to make down payments on their homes (our money, they a re getting housing, medical care, education, food - now how fair should we be? Now, yes, I will agree - we should be fair. We should say to them - you have broken the law - you must leave. That's fair. If they do stay, we should say, if you work - you pay taxes. If you eat, you buy it. If you have medical care - you pay for it. If you want you kids educated - you put something in the pot. If you want to live here -obey all our laws and act like Americans - now how fair is that?
[They pay us back in spades.]
Yep, we get paid back in higher taxes, high crime rates, higher medical costs, lower property values, our education system is being destroyed. That is paying us back - all right.
Now I am going to assume you simply do not know the truth and are just being kind - any other reason for those things in a post would just be to sad to contemplate.
Now I have no more - but no less - sympathy for these people than I do anyone living in the war zone.
Do you know where we could learn the actual laws regarding employment of illegals and failure to withhold taxes from anyone? Perhaps we could do a little 'reporting'. IF enough 'reports' came in, do you think they (the powers that be) would get the picture?
Now my husband is an old man - but he would never admit two Mexican men could do what he couldn't.
Now some people in this country think they are above manual labor and don't allow their children to do it either. That is a pity. I wonder if anyone realizes how many young people have put themselves through college working at McDonalds, or doing manual labor? A lot.
Another aspect of all this cheap labor for agriculture - there is and will be very little need for advances in mechanical answers to farm labor. Why buy an expensive machine - when you can have your employees subsidized by the taxpayers.
The ones committing felony fraud by using stolen Social Security numbers and birth certificates of Americans that were also stolen or presenting other fraudulent ID's do end up on payrolls and get taxes withheld ---but that is a felony crime they commit when they do this. The ones who are less criminal and work for cash don't get Social Security or FICA or any tax withheld and it's unlikely they are filing income tax returns to pay their taxes.
I think people like you who exploit them by bragging you pay them less than what an American could make in the same job and who don't pay into Social Security and Workmans' Comp for them are treating them badly. Sure they're browner and can be exploited, sure they work like dogs for low money but is that really the right approach? I don't hire illegals but I'm sure I know more illegals than you do. What I'd rather see is our government start demanding their corrupt government make the needed social and cultural changes that are long overdue. I think it's terrible that one nation allows it's people to be used like slaves.
Allowing Mexico to remain one of the most corrupt nations in the world just so you get cheap brown workers doesn't seem like a good goal to me ---of course they'd all like to come here ---but having 90% of Mexico move to the US seems like one of the flakiest "solutions" I've ever heard. We're delaying the reforms just by being a giant safety valve but it benefits some people's greed. What suddenly happens at the Rio Grande and the rest of the border that prosperity comes to a screeching halt? Not natural resources ---it's the same land mass, in fact Mexico competes with England and Germany in number of billionaires and millionaires. There's no good excuse for Mexico to be such a hellhole that people die to get out.
I would have paid your husband $40 to dig out those roots. I would have paid you that also. I doubt either of you could have done it, but it would have been great fun to watch you try. There is something to be said for entertainment value.
It would have been even more fun to have have blown them up.
Hang in there, Bernard. I need all the help I can get. ;)
At least we agree on something.
Mexico is a pretty f'ed-up country.
One time, I had the privilge to ride on a skiff down there that was excorted by a 16 y.o. boy in an army uniform carrying an automatic rifle. I asked permission to take his photo. He shook his head. I took it anyway when he wasn't looking. The camera was at my knee.
Another time, I was ushered into a customs area at an airport where there was no exit. I had to jump over the turnstyle to make back it to the plane.
You ever watch a Mexican fire department in operation? Let's just say that they aren't quite as efficient as ours are.
Ever driven by a garbage dump in Mexico? Ecologically speaking, they leave something to be desired.
Ever gotten lost driving in Tijuana? You see some things you don't want to look at.
What probably pisses me off the most down there is their churches. I probably shouldn't get into that, however.
Other than those in power, who in their right mind would not want to get out of there?
Los Angeles is home to multimillionaire movie execs and billionaire developers. When it comes to the overall value of its goods and services, L.A. County does better than Switzerland, Sweden or Austria. It is also the poverty capital of the nation.
< SNIP >
An estimated 811,000 residents work off the books as day laborers or nannies, earning substandard wages and no benefits. Almost 2 million people -- more than in any other metropolitan area -- eke out an existence on less than $18,100 a year, the federally defined poverty level for a family of four. The burden is even greater in this area, topped only by New York City and San Francisco in cost of living.
In a time when lack of education increasingly means a life of poverty, 30% of county residents over 25 have never finished high school. Among the 36% who are foreign-born in L.A. County, many are immigrants from Latin American countries with low levels of education.
I am in stitches.
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