GM Quality Gap Real, or Perceived?

Bloomberg.com ^ | 11/18/2002 | Doron Levin

[GeneD]

Southfield, Michigan, Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- If you want to anger a General Motors Corp. executive these days, just offer the opinion that the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are the highest-quality midsize sedans.

You may sustain a vigorous tongue-lashing for failing to acknowledge that the latest J.D. Power and Associates survey of initial quality ranks General Motors's Buick Century ahead of the Camry and the Accord.

[kms61]

I own a 92 Chevy S10 that's given me almost no trouble in ten years. (knock wood). My mom has a new Cadillac CTS that's a very nice car and IMO comparable in quality to the midsize BMW. My dad has a Chevy Avalanche which I at first thought was a gimmicky concept, but have come to realize is a very practical vehicle. And my brother and his wife own a Chevy full size pickup and a Jeep Cherokee, which are trouble free vehicles.

I have driven all of the above, and have been very satisfied with both the quality and handling of these vehicles. GM gets a thumbs up from me.

[FateAmenableToChange]

Unfortunately for General Motors, a reputation for quality once spoiled takes a long time to win back -- especially when lots of older GM vehicles that never won anything in surveys remain on the road in great number.

I feel about GM like I feel about voting Democrat - burned bad once and I'll never go back. I really want to buy and own American. But, tossing in my parents' and siblings' experiences with my own, every Toyota we've owned since 1980 (6) has lasted over 200,000 miles. Every Ford (2) and GM (2) has performed miserably, usually going to the Salvation Army or the sales block at about 125,000. GM has to start from zero and rebuild its quality reputation.

[NativeNewYorker]

GM made awful cars for so many years, and alientated so many people, that it may take a decade of producing decent cars (if in fact they are any good), before people will trust them again.

Problem is, GM doesn't HAVE a decade to turn itself around.

[js1138]

I'm not impressed by "initial quality". I want to know what a car's like in its second 100,000 miles.

[mgstarr]

It will take a lot more than that to get me to forget the cr@p they turned out in the 70's and 80's.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Hodar]

In the 2002 initial quality survey, General Motors vehicles scored an average 130 defects per hundred vehicles. Toyota vehicles scored an average 107 defects per hundred, compared with the industry average of 133 defects per hundred.

GM has 130 defects/100; or 1.30/vehicle
Toyota has 107/100; or 1.07/vehicle
Therefore, Toyota has (1.3-1.07)/1.07 = 21.5% better Quality than GM.

As for reliability goes, Consumer Reports tends to have a very good report demonstrating the superiority of Toyota products. American car companies have improved tremendously from where they were; but the Japanese haven't been sitting still either.

[Aquinasfan]

It takes a long time to get your reputation back.

My '89 Toyota pickup is running fine and when it dies many years from now I may consider a GM truck.

[Lassiter]

We traded in a Mazda 626 last year with 260,000 miles on it. We bought an '02 Ford Ranger (with which we are well pleased), but when we're again in the market for sedans we're definitely going foreign. I'll buy all the Ford Trucks they make, but as for anything else, they can just forget it.

[RightWhale]

Nothing cruises the Interstate quite as smoothly as the Chevy Caprice. Quiet, plenty of power, lots of room. However, the warranty is 60,000 miles, and that's exactly where things start falling off the vehicle.

[AgentEcho]

I don't know if it's real or perceived, all I know is that fir every beautiful Caddy CTS they have five Aztec ugly designs. I'll stick to my '95 Dodge Stratus ES and '02 Dodge Ram...

Æ

[Alberta's Child]

The Ford/Mazda combination has been a good one. I think Ford uses Mazda transmissions on their mid-size cars and light trucks/SUVs.

I've got a 1994 Ford SUV with 190,000+ miles on it. No problems whatsoever, and any mechanic who works on it says it is still just a baby.

[cmsgop]

I too had many a Chevy (all new at the time) that had let me down. I had enough !!!!! I went VW and I just love my Jetta and the sevice is friendly and outstanding.

[Hodar]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Chevy stuck me with the poorly designed Monza; when I was in college. I paid a lot of money (for me) when I could least afford a bad car. This car went through 2 engines, 2 transmissions, doors re-hung 3x and was generally unreliable until I dropped it off at the salvage yard with 75,000 miles on it. I'll never buy another Chevy again.... I'm making a good living now, and currently drive fairly expensive cars .... but I won't consider a Chevy at any price, under any condition. I'm still open to Ford, though....

[Woahhs]

I notice the American car manufacturers STILL refuse to "get it." They are calling quality "defects per car" at the manufacturing end. Everyone with a brain calls quality "how far can I go without a breakdown"

So far, I have logged well over 300,000 miles in three toyotas (two pickups and an Echo) and the TOTAL mechanical failures have been ONE thermostat that went bad.

Dear Mr. GM man...try getting in MY face about quality.

[cinFLA]

We passed on the Envoy and bought Toyota. Gotta go with the odds.

[cmsgop]

I think Dodge makes a Fine Product.

[bribriagain]

Same experience here. I had transmissions go out on both of my Buick Rivieras. Switched to Camry's two years and have never looked back. I should mention I own a triple black 2001 corvette convertible that is the sweetest car I've ever owned.

[Lassiter]

I didn't realize that Ford got its trannys from Mazda. Both of my Fords had standards and have never really had any problems.

I'll definitely stick up for Ford's light trucks. When I was an undergrad my dad lent me his 1989 Ranger. That truck had nary a problem for 162,000 miles until the engine finally let go (a little four-banger). That truck got me in and out of so much that I felt like I was saying goodbye to a family member when I got rid of it. I liked it so well I went straight out and got another one (except this time with a 4.0 L and 4x4).

[americanMel]

Nothing cruises the Interstate quite as smoothly as the Chevy Caprice. Quiet, plenty of power, lots of room. However, the warranty is 60,000 miles, and that's exactly where things start falling off the vehicle. That's exactly right. My 1999 GMC Yukon just turned over 63,000 miles and the transmission went out. It's in the shop now and costing right at $1,800. Won't be buying another GMC product ever again (had a Chevy Suburban that did the same thing). Thinking of trying Ford or Dodge next.