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Democrat Website Shunned July Warning - Banned Dem Prophet!
freerepublic and a certain rat cellar | July 2002 | tlbshow originally

Posted on 11/08/2002 7:45:30 PM PST by parsifal

In July 2002, freeper tlbshow picked up on a thread on a certain rat underground website. It seems one of the dems had actually bothered to read Ann Coulter's book, "Slander" and thought her analysis of democratic and leftish problems was correct. The brave rat posted his/her thoughts on the dem website and drew a firestorm. The Dem article is reproduced here in full:

I just went to one of the "bad places." Is this the article you were referring to:

Ann Coulter is Right - And I Am Reeling" Posted by khangaskhan on Jul-03-02 at 11:46 PM

I just finished reading Ann Coulter's new book, Slander. As much as it pains me to admit, she is right. Not about our underlying philosophy, but about the way we politick. We Democrats, and particularly we Liberal Democrats, are far too busy name-calling and acting like elite self-righteous snobs, to dirty our hands with the problems of the working class. I do not say this lightly and am reluctant to say it at all for fear that it will end up on some right-wing moron website.

But the charges that Ann Coulter so devastatingly levels at us are true. If the only victims of our attacks were Republicans and the right wingers, then it would not matter. They deserve it. But I believe that we have almost fatally wounded ourselves as a party in the process. We do not debate fairly because we do not understand what we are all about. We substitute canards and slogans for thought.

Let me give you an example. I remember reading about a study of the Head Start program. The study noted that by the fourth grade, there were no significant differences between those students who attended Head Start and those who didn't. The Neanderthals, of course, wanted to discontinue funding for Head Start. And our side. . .the good guys. What was our response? Well, we called them neanderthals. How could they be right? They're neanderthals. They're greedy. They don't like poor children. They're racists.

Do you see our methodology? They rely on a study. They make a logical, cogent point. We simply call them names and rely upon our own reputation for self-righteousness. Then....we wonder why these guys are murdering us on talk radio. They understand just enough of the situation to be dangerous (and wrong). But do we "tell the rest of the story?" No. Do we respond with reason? Do we respond with logic? No. We are far too good for that. What would a liberal talk show host do, call Republicans names for two hours?

We are the "right kind of people", you see, and they aren't. And if you don't believe this, then read Slander. I expected to find a book of right-wing blonde-bimbo-babble. And through the first few pages I was not disappointed. But somewhere around page 10, I began to get an uncomfortable feeling. Coulter wasn't just calling us bad names—she was challenging us to debate. And debate on logical grounds. Read this, from page 10 and 11:

"But ad hominem attack is the liberal's idea of political debate. They self consciously hold themselves outside the argument and make snippy personal comments about anyone who is actually talking about something. The Republican's motives are analyzed, his intelligence critiqued, his personal life unearthed. If it were true that conservatives were racist, sexist, homophobic, fascist, stupid, inflexible, angry, and self-righteous, shouldn't their arguments be easy to deconstruct? Someone who is making a point out of anger, ideology, inflexibility, or resentment would presumably construct a flimsy argument. So why can't the argument itself be dismembered rather that the speaker's personal style or hidden motives? Why the evasions?"

And for the next 230 pages of text and voluminous detailed footnotes, Coulter fires salvo after salvo after salvo of truth and reality broadsides squarely amidships into us. By the end of the book, I was physically nauseated. I am not ashamed to admit that I spent the next few days in a kind of psychic shock. I even began to question whether I still believed in income redistribution, affirmative action, and gun control. The only thing that saved me was when I realized that the answer to Ann Coulter and all the other right wingers wasn't to agree with them or become them, but to simply learn how to HONESTLY DEBATE THEM. And the reason that we haven't been HONESTLY DEBATING THEM, is that we have lost touch with our Democratic roots. Ann Coulter isn't our problem, WE are our problem.

We really, on a personal level, do not know the problems of young black children and because we don't, we rely on a PROGRAM to save them. LET THEM EAT CAKE, we say. And when Marie Antoinette first said that, it wasn't a mean thing—she just didn't understand the problems of the poor. And neither do we Democrats. The point of Head Start, for example, isn't to perpetuate the Head Start program. The purpose is to provide an educational boost to underprivileged children. If the program doesn't work, then we need to change the program. If the other side points out that the program isn't working, then we should thank them. What vested interest do we Democrats have in a program that doesn't work? None.

I have long thought that our Democratic leaders have lost touch with the grass roots. How else do you explain Democratic support for NAFTA, the Bankruptcy Reform Bill, the welfare program reductions, the increased use of the death penalty, tax reductions for the wealthy, and the Democratic failure to pass meaningful living wage legislation and the failure to provide for national health care.

In our impotent rage, we simply, well, rage. But that rage can be better utilized to accomplish some good. I believe that all of us need to read the Coulter book. I think it is almost a rite of passage for us. We need to come to grips with our failures before we can take back the Congress and White House. DON'T BUY THE BOOK, just check it out at the library, or borrow it from somebody. Pick up a copy on the $1.00 shelf at Books-a-Million in few months when the new has worn off. Do not support her, but do please read her. And after you finish, let's you and I roll up our sleeves and go to work. We need to return to our roots.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; groupthink; nazidemocratleft
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To: copycat
"We substitute canards and slogans for thought."

Yes, but our canards and slogans are better than theirs and represent the results of thought, not substitutes for thought. Would that fit on a bumper sticker? parsy the curious.
21 posted on 11/08/2002 8:06:05 PM PST by parsifal
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To: parsifal
I tried to engage the same people with honest advice about what I think is wrong with their party. No name calling, just polite observations.

Personally, I am sick of negative campaigning and personal attacks on all candidates. It would be nice to see a real debate about ideas between all factions of both parties.

I was banned after 4 posts. I guess the Republicans are going to continue to do well for the foreseeable future. The liberals on that site are not interested in debate. They simply want to rave on about how evil Republicans are ruining the earth. It is their right to do so, but I think it is to their party's detriment.
22 posted on 11/08/2002 8:06:45 PM PST by Poser
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To: parsifal
Anyone know any good right-wing moron websites?
23 posted on 11/08/2002 8:06:57 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Gunslingr3; FLdeputy
I even began to question whether I still believed in income redistribution, affirmative action, and gun control.

The horror!

At least this self-avowed idiot liberal began to question. That puts him at the very, very, very high end of the liberal bell curve.

24 posted on 11/08/2002 8:07:59 PM PST by Jonathon Spectre
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To: Verginius Rufus
Well, I am kinda partial to this one. parsy the moron.
25 posted on 11/08/2002 8:08:47 PM PST by parsifal
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To: Interesting Times
Except that he only took a few sentences to call us morons. Did he proofread his own work?
26 posted on 11/08/2002 8:10:56 PM PST by poindexter
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To: parsifal
I agree with your comments....thank god the democrats know how to eat their own....

I was getting worried there for a moment, especially since she still refuses to join our side. We definitely do not want her to educate her pals on how to whoop us.

27 posted on 11/08/2002 8:13:18 PM PST by thingumbob
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To: parsifal
Dang! good post parsy!
28 posted on 11/08/2002 8:17:31 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: parsifal
It's hard to believe a genuine liberal wrote that article. I'd guess it was a conservative mole.
29 posted on 11/08/2002 8:18:17 PM PST by Semaphore Heathcliffe
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To: parsifal
I bought the book ("SLANDER") read it, laughed so hard I got a hernia, and now I am loaning it out to friends and co-workers who show any spark of political awareness (I work with 90% liberals).

I'll have the hernia fixed next week- anyway, it was worth it!

30 posted on 11/08/2002 8:19:03 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: thingumbob
I agree with your comments....thank god the democrats know how to eat their own....

So do we!

31 posted on 11/08/2002 8:19:17 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Bogey78O
A few months ago on this site, I was having an argument with a new poster who self-identified himself/herself as a liberal. The argument involved whether Vietnam would have been better off if the South Vietnamese had beaten the NVA. As the argument was getting going, I challenged the poster to name one country in the world where it had ever happened that the Communists had taken over and then voluntarily relinquished power. I pointed out that this scenario had happened with a number of U.S. back authoritarian regimes, such as in Taiwan, South Korea, Chile, the Phillipines, etc. The Communist regime, however, had ever come close to voluntarily relinquishing power in the way that pro-Western regimes had. The liberal's response was that of course the communists had done. He/She then proceeded to cite as examples East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, etc., after the fall of the Iron Curtain. Once I read that response, I stopped responding because I figured it was pointless to continue the argument.
32 posted on 11/08/2002 8:19:45 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: parsifal
Hey, I'm not saying we on the right do that, the left substitutes slogans for thought. I just wanted to reinforce that notion.

Sorry, I should have put that in quotes or something.

33 posted on 11/08/2002 8:21:38 PM PST by copycat
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To: Semaphore Heathcliffe
You might be right. It sounded like the writer was trying a little too hard in spots, (for egs., 'it made me question income redistribution') but then again, willpitt over at *U, gets awful preachy at times, too. All in all, I think kangas there was being sincere, but who knows. parsy.
34 posted on 11/08/2002 8:22:59 PM PST by parsifal
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To: parsifal
I recognize those symptoms, they happened to me while I was evolving from a liberal into a conservative. That nauseated feeling where deep down in your gut, you know that the other guy is right. No matter how you "feel" about him and his agenda, you _know_, somewhere, somehow, that he is right. Its a reeling feeling, as the shackles of cognitive dissonance are shed.

It is difficult to work through, and I admire this person for getting this far. As a former liberal, I always had felt that the right wingers were a bunch of mean spirited people... I still believe that many of them are, and even some people who post here on FreeRepublic would meet those standards, but the LEFT has taken the cake in that respect. That part of the realization had me feeling ill as well.

To the liberal in the midst of The Change, I offer you comfort. Not all conservatives are bad, you can still feel compassion for your fellow man, and be a conservative. You can still revel in your high IQ and be conservative. I urge you to make the final step. You need not fundamentally change your views about love, life, and happiness, you just have to use reason as your primary tool, and accept the data and information that is out there, and has been out there, for years.

35 posted on 11/08/2002 8:24:09 PM PST by Paradox
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To: wirestripper
I don't think we are that bad, I have only been banned once here, for being a little too naughty, but over at *U I have been banned about a half dozen times for expressing genuine democrat thoughts. I even accidentally got my future neice in law banned when I went in one night under her password. Those *U guys are complete thought nazis. parsy.
36 posted on 11/08/2002 8:26:30 PM PST by parsifal
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To: Paradox
Bravo!!!...Well said.
37 posted on 11/08/2002 8:28:04 PM PST by thingumbob
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To: parsifal
If kangaskhan followed up their reading of Slander by reading Vision of the Anoited his/her head would really be spinning. I think this person is trying to get it but hasn't purt all the pieces together.

I not suprised he/she was banned at DU, thinking is very dangerous and not to be tolerated only the party line and vitriol towards conservatives is allowed.

38 posted on 11/08/2002 8:32:34 PM PST by Leto
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To: parsifal
If the other side points out that the program isn't working, then we should thank them. What vested interest do we Democrats have in a program that doesn't work? None.

Ah, but they do have vested interest in programs that don't work.
39 posted on 11/08/2002 8:35:05 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: Leto
If I remember right, kangaskhan's thread was locked down by the *U moderators, and I never saw another kangaskhan thread or post again. A freeper mole there said there was a tombstone on kangas's *U profile page. I think kangas got sent to Bellaabzug Concentration Kamp by the *U thought nazis. parsy.
40 posted on 11/08/2002 8:37:04 PM PST by parsifal
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