Posted on 11/05/2002 3:31:42 AM PST by kattracks
Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Prior to the capture of "Beltway Sniper" suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo, an unconfirmed number of Maryland gun owners received surprise visits from the FBI as part of the investigation. One such gun owner had a surprise of his own for the agents when they arrived at his home.
Jeff Brown of Gaithersburg, Md., was "a little nervous" when he heard the voicemail message from an FBI agent on the sniper task force who wanted to "visit" Brown at his home to check a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle Brown purchased in 1993. Adding to that apprehension was the fact that Brown owns and drives a full-sized white panel van, the type of vehicle investigators believed the sniper was driving.
"I expected, actually, to be pulled over and spread-eagle on the street at some point," Brown told CNSNews.com Monday. "When he called, I knew their database had had a double hit. A white van and a .223 rifle? I knew they were coming."
In a subsequent telephone conversation, Metzger reportedly told Brown that agents merely wanted to verify the serial number of the rifle and confirm that it was, in fact, still physically in Brown's possession. The two scheduled an appointment to accomplish those goals.
But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least once to make an unannounced visit, and only called because they were unable to catch him at home.
"Once I told some of my friends in the pro-gun community what was happening, they began to relate some stories to me about guys having their guns confiscated, for so-called 'ballistic fingerprinting,' and not getting their guns back," Brown explained. "I became alarmed."
Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said the attitude of the federal agents comes as a result of "years of accepting gun control as somehow useful for solving crimes."
"The [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] went to the stores and got the lists of gun owners that had something that could fire a .223. But, it didn't solve the crime," Pratt noted. "The only reason we find that gun registration is 'useful' is for confiscation."
FBI Agents 'Were Not Happy'
Brown's apprehension prompted him to contact an attorney, who instructed him on preparing for the visit. So, when FBI Special Agent Greg Metzger and his partner arrived at Brown's home for their scheduled meeting, they were greeted by Brown and his wife, Mary, along with reporters and photographers from various media outlets.
As Brown described the situation, the agents were "a little bit miffed."
"They were not happy," he observed. "They just were not interested in being around any cameras."
The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television crew, to talk.
"Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view of the camera.
Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger. But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone, he stopped the conversation short.
"Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued talking, but the agent interrupted him again.
"Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately."
Brown complied, but only after summoning his wife to serve as a witness to the conversation with the agents. Out of the camera's view, and believing they could not be heard, the agents challenged Brown about the presence of the media.
"They were belligerent, at that point, with me. They weren't threatening me or pushing me around or touching me or anything like that, but their mannerisms and attitude quickly became offended and belligerent," Brown recalled. "I was thinking to myself, 'See, this is what I was afraid would happen if you guys came into my house, especially if I was alone.'"
'Don't You Know People Are Dying?'
Parts of the conversation picked up by the camera's long-range microphone confirm Brown's account of what happened next.
"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent asked.
Brown said it was not so much the words the agents used, as their attitude and body language that made him uncomfortable.
"There was some lecturing about it," he said recalling one comment that did unnerve him.
"One thing they said was, 'Don't you know people are dying and we're just trying to do our job?'" Brown recalled, "Of course, the inference was that I didn't care that there were people dying and I was trying to interfere with them doing their job."
During that conversation, the agents reportedly admitted that they had seized other rifles, allegedly with permission, to compare them to the ballistic evidence gathered from the crime scenes.
"They said, from some people, they do 'request' to take the gun with them and do 'ballistic fingerprinting,' as they call it," Brown recalled. "I just did not want to have my gun disappear."
Pratt believes the agents "developed an attitude," because Brown challenged their attempts to violate his constitutional rights.
"The FBI is trying to put this guy on a guilt trip because he's 'not cooperating' with the system but it's a totally useless system," Pratt argued. "They just assume that gun owners [are] all a bunch of suspects just for being gun owners and they should behave accordingly."
'They Were Doing It On Purpose'
At the request of Special Agent Metzger, Brown instructed the media to stay outside his home, where they could see what was happening through a plate glass window. Brown had the unloaded weapon displayed in plain sight for the inspection.
The agents followed Brown and his wife inside and confirmed the serial number on the rifle as they had said they wanted to do. But that was not the end of the encounter.
"After they checked, they started [questioning Brown again], and that's when my wife stepped in and told them to leave," Brown said, noting that his wife formerly worked in law enforcement.
Mary Brown believed the agents were attempting to agitate her husband, hoping he would say or do something to justify their confiscation of his rifle.
"I could tell that they were doing it on purpose and I didn't like what they were doing to you," she told her husband. "So, I decided to just jump right in."
The agents left the couple's property, as they were ordered to do.
Jeff Brown does not believe the agents' reaction to the presence of the media, or their "brow-beating" tactics were justified.
"I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure my rights are not violated. I wanted to help, but this is not Nazi Germany," he explained. "I looked [Metzger] right in the eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're upset about being ambushed by the media. I felt I needed some witnesses here with me.'"
Brown, a member of the National Rifle Association and former candidate for public office in Maryland, was also upset by what he perceived as a lack of honesty on the part of the FBI.
"[Metzger] wasn't upfront with me, and I didn't have any guilty feelings about [contacting the media]," Brown said. "They weren't truthful with me. They didn't tell me all the truth. They only told me the part they wanted to hear."
A Message to Gun Owners?
Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said the bureau would not respond to any questions about the encounter, because the probe into the multiple murders was still in progress.
"We're not going to be able to get into any kind of a dialogue with you regarding any aspect of our investigation," she said.
Pratt believes the response of the agents to the presence of the media shows that their main focus was not on finding the "Beltway Sniper," but rather on sending a message to gun owners.
"They know it's not about crime control because, if they were really interested in finding the perpetrator they would have kept moving. Obviously this guy wasn't the guy," Pratt concluded. "What it's really all about is showing that the feds are in control in a very totalitarian sense of the word."
E-mail a news tip to Jeff Johnson.
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Asset forfeiture got bounced in Oregon, and now a multi-county law enforcement team has a measure on today's ballot to levy a tax strictly for the WOD. Kinda spooky.
Sorry, I think the guy is. He automatically assumes they are out to get him, and then goes into defensive posture before the agents have even said a word. He puts his faith in the media, which are biggest bunch of liars in the world, to protect his gun? There was no need to automatically turn a visit into a confrontation. Sorry if I have to trust the FBI or the Media when it comes to dealing with an incident of domestic terrorism, I have way more faith in the FBI than the media. THe media still can't bring itself to admit what these guys were. Muslim Terrorists, and possibly homosexual partners.
You own a gun that is of the type being used in terror, you own a van matching what they are looking for as well. They ask to come verify the gun is not missing or stolen. What could have been a 10-15 minute conversation and civil interaction was needless turned into a circus by a paranoid JERK.
The FBI investigates thousands of cases every year, and does so generally very professionally and well. Out of all the cases what? A few dozen or so a year wind up in problems or other issues? But those are the stories the media latches onto, and so now every FBI agent is a tyrant? Sorry no. But because he knows somebody who heard from somebody who dated somebodies cousin, he's gonna treat them like they are the enemy... JERK.
One of the definitions of tyranny is when someone is afraid of their government.
Doesn't take long to go through 500 rounds at the range, especially having the kids reload the magazines as I empty them (in exchange for giving them THEIR turn to punch holes in paper while I reload THEIR empty magazines)!
A family that shoots together, stays alive together (or something like that). Heh-heh!
Stay vigilent, stay armed, never trust a muslim, and be careful about the feds!
he was one of the MANY patriots that fought the "gore wars" with us at CHENEY's house!
sadly you are living in the past, if you really believe the FB&I is your friend.
ALSO, i USED to be a state LEO & a fed and the FB&I has changed, BUT not for the better since i was employed.
free dixie,sw
Not necessarily. He may have been reading FR threads and (like me) seen the headsup that that gun owners were being targeted and having their guns confiscated and not returned on the pretext that they needed to do 'ballistic fingerprinting'.
you said that, Tom!
for dixie liberty NOW,sw
He treated them far better than I would.
I recently suffered a theft of some of my firearms. The detective on the case recommended that I contact ATF. I told him I would have nothing to do with those baby killers. He contacted them himself.
I'm sorry, I disagree, his actions in this matter are wholey that of a JERK. He may be a great guy at other times, but in this matter he was a JERK. Agents are doing their jobs, there was nothing confrontational about their actions in any way until this guy decided to turn what should have been a civil conversation as part of a routine investigative stop in an anti-terrorist investigation into a Me V Them confrontation. He knowingly and willfully turned the situation confrontational without any need or justification. Just a paranoid JERK in this case.
he was one of the MANY patriots that fought the "gore wars" with us at CHENEY's house!
Well that's great, but that doesn't change or excuse his actions in this instance.
sadly you are living in the past, if you really believe the FB&I is your friend.
I believe the FBI was doing its duty, and I believe that they do their duty often very well. You talk of how you know MANY of them are jerks, well how many Sir? How many of the thousands of FBI agents, that work day in and day out and do good damned work, and love their country and their families and help protect this country and help put criminals behind bars, do you know PERSONALLY to be jerks? The FBI investigates thousands upon thosands of things yearly, and handfuls of them turn up with problems and you sit here and broadbrush the entire organization by these few incidents that the press latches onto. The press always latches on the negative extremes of anything, it is the one offs that are news worthy. The normal day to day things never get attention, they are not unique enough.
Your associate needless decided to create a confrontational situation when it was not needed nor warranted. These agents were doing their job, given the situation are you suggesting they should not be checking into known weapons of the type being used by the terrorist? Amazing, the biggest lying organization on the planet today is the media and here your fellow "gore war" veteran is placing his trust in the media over the FBI in a matter of terrorism, so much so that he turned what should have been a civil 15 minute conversation into a confrontation.
ALSO, i USED to be a state LEO & a fed and the FB&I has changed, BUT not for the better since i was employed.
All things change, but for you to sit here and broadstroke all law enforcement as tyranical jacked booted terrorists is hogwash! There are thousands of dedicated professionals that work for the FBI, and unlike your unruly little JERK associate of yours one of them was actually killed by these terrorists, but them coming to his door to follow up on the location of his gun was some sort of irreprehensible situation that he needed to antagonize them needlessly for duing their duty. His actions were not CIVIL, he took a indignant defensive posture when none was needed.
He may be a fine human being, but his actions in this particular instance were those of a JERK.
When the people who were murdered by the government at Waco hung signs out the windows pleading with the media to protect them from the federal thugs by watching things, it fell on deaf ears. The media soon became cheerleaders for the government.
He spoke with a lawyer, and also with several other brilliant legal minds within the mainstream RKBA community who shall remain nameless (it's not my place to name those names, they may wish to remain in the background); and he acted on legal advice... which was spot-on, in my "radical, individual rights is paramount" opinion. The media that was there was the right kind of media, and it was enough to give the investigators pause to consider their approach to any further activities focusing on the legal gun owners of Maryland.
We (peaceful law-abiding gun owners in Maryland) have been grabbing our ankles for years (please excuse the off-color remark), and Jeff was bold enough and smart enough to check out his options and exercise his rights as a free citizen of the "Free State," and major kudos go to him!
Sure, it's a terrible thing that there was a sniper on the loose in our back yards. But he was on the loose in our back yards. We were the ones living with the threat of being shot while we went about our daily lives. We were also the ones who were unfairly profiled as being somehow connected or even responsible for the cowardly acts of the snipers.
It was easy and safe for the investigators to come after us. We are peaceful folks. The investigators got their overtime paychecks no matter who they interviewed. The tougher job was to hunt down the real killer. And that job was done by the snipers themselves and a regular citizen who had his eyes open at the right time. I'm happy that it's over, but it could happen again; and I don't like the idea that the investigators might again come after us, the peaceful folks who obey the laws.
I think Jeff's actions will give the investigators some small pause before they try to intimidate us into handing over our legal firearms for "testing."
For many good reasons, I will not go into the many unintended consequences that could result from having our legal, legally used firearms test-fired so that the LEOs can have a "fingerprint" on file for future crimes; but there are many, and every gun owner probably knows them already. If you own a firearm and don't pick up every piece of spent brass when you shoot, for fun or food, your "fingerprint" could be picked up by anyone and placed at almost any scene. Next thing you know, you might be the latest "angry white male" suspect. Think about it.
Remember that when you vote. John Ashcroft could be the man that will end up putting the final nails in the coffin of the Bill of Rights.
Remember that when you vote. John Ashcroft could be the man that will end up putting the final nails in the coffin of the Bill of Rights.
Good question. Some think the guy is a jerk for making sure everything is out in the open, and others wonder exactly what needed to be "off the record" about official duties? If the media is there it is a perfect opportunity for the government employees to show how professional they are while going about their legitimate business.
Gee, were they also just following orders?
Isn't it possible that the agents could have observed a bayonet lug on Brown's rifle and discovered that it had been manufactured after 1968? Wouldn't Brown then be guilty of a felony? Only an idiot would open himself up to such tyrannical nonsense when all he has to say is "NO".
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