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A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect [James brother of Jesus Ossuary is a hoax-my title]
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-eisenman29oct29.story?null ^ | October 29, 2002 | Robert Eisenman

Posted on 11/01/2002 10:45:35 AM PST by Polycarp

COMMENTARY

A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect

Claims that stone box held remains of Jesus' brother may be suspect.

By Robert Eisenman Robert Eisenman is the author of "James the Brother of Jesus" (Penguin, 1998) and a professor of Middle East religions and archeology at Cal State Long Beach.

October 29 2002

James, the brother of Jesus, was so well known and important as a Jerusalem religious leader, according to 1st century sources, that taking the brother relationship seriously was perhaps the best confirmation that there ever was a historical Jesus. Put another way, it was not whether Jesus had a brother, but rather whether the brother had a "Jesus."

Now we are suddenly presented with this very "proof": the discovery, allegedly near Jerusalem, of an ossuary inscribed in the Aramaic language used at that time, with "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." An ossuary is a stone box in which bones previously laid out in rock-cut tombs, such as those in the Gospels, were placed after they were retrieved by relatives or followers.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Free Republic; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; jamescameron; jamesossuary; letshavejerusalem; simchajacobovici; talpiot
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
You will notice, of course, that it was non-Catholics who took this thread off topic, and certain Catholics have tried in vain to bring it back on topic.

Please be a little more discerning when you throw out patronizing remarks in such a broad fashion.

Thanks.

361 posted on 11/02/2002 10:15:08 AM PST by Polycarp
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To: berned
The Holy Spirit would certainly mention it.
Unless YOU are the Holy Spirit, you don't know that. Seems rather blasphemous of you to make a comment like that.
362 posted on 11/02/2002 10:32:21 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Clara Lou
Seems rather blasphemous of you to make a comment like that.

Hmmm...clarity of thought. I like that.

363 posted on 11/02/2002 10:36:02 AM PST by Polycarp
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To: berned
As for the question about whether Mary visited the tomb of Jesus ....

It is Jewish practice, presumably going back to Apostolic times (the period of the Talmud) that one minimizes the visits to a loved one's grave during the first year. Additionally, Mary, as a devout Jew, would have been observing shiva, a full week of mourning in which the immediate family of the deceased stay home, abstain from any creature comforts (such as music or perfume), and go without shoes (shoes being regarded as a sign of comfort and prosperity). [see, for example, chapter 42 of Rabbi Chaim Binyamin Goldberg, Mourning in Halachah, publ. 1991 by Mesorah Publishing] Mary might have been observing shiva or, being considerably older and perhaps more griefstricken than the other women, was not among the first to reach the tomb.

As for the part of the inscription that was thought more ancient than the rest, "Jesus son of Joseph" (keeping in mind that Jesus is the Greek equivalent of Joshua) is about as common as "Robert son of William" would be nowadays.

364 posted on 11/02/2002 11:09:14 AM PST by DonQ
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
Can to give me some reasons why Shanks and the scholars would perpetuate a hoax like this?

I don't know Shanks, but I do know hoaxes. I'm not accusing Shanks or any of the researchers of hoaxing--any one could have done it and "planted" it. And I can think of a number of reasons some stranger would have. Publicity and hatred of Catholicism, for two.

365 posted on 11/02/2002 11:11:08 AM PST by stands2reason
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To: Campion
Those were annoying posts by them and by me. I was saying it to make a point.
366 posted on 11/02/2002 2:25:09 PM PST by Destro
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To: Polycarp
So why don't you go by the name Dr. Brian Kopp anymore?
367 posted on 11/02/2002 2:44:19 PM PST by Niagara
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To: BlackElk
There are at least three of them: St. James the Greater (meaning older) who was the first bishop at Jerusalem after the Resurrection and Ascension and Pentecost.

Here's a Catholic reference, the Catholic Encyclopedia at the New Advent website, that places this James as James the Less. You can also get St. Jerome's Against Helvidius at this site. Seems like pretty sound commentary:

The Brethren of the Lord

368 posted on 11/02/2002 3:16:06 PM PST by TotusTuus
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To: DonQ
To correct myself, supposedly the older and better part of the inscription is "James the son of Joseph" -- but in Aramaic (or Hebrew) the name James is rendered as Jacob. Saying "Jacob son of Joseph" is about as commonplace as Robert son of William.
369 posted on 11/02/2002 3:16:06 PM PST by DonQ
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To: Irisshlass
Jesus and the Apostles also taught orally...Can you imagine people asking them...do you have a document for that?

Yes, they're called Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

I have no problem with oral tradition. The only problem I have is when those traditions conflict with the Scriptures.

Do you know what the word "canon" means and why the Church uses it as a synonym for the Bible?

370 posted on 11/02/2002 4:04:28 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: berned
Mark Ch 16 V1
371 posted on 11/02/2002 6:36:30 PM PST by azhenfud
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To: DallasMike
The only problem I have is when those traditions conflict with the Scriptures.

I agree I have trouble with Luther's traditions..

Do you know what the word "canon" means and why the Church uses it as a synonym for the Bible?

Books that compose the Old Testament...New Testament

372 posted on 11/02/2002 6:51:21 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: FreePaul
Paul, that was XIII B.C.E. (Jeesh, even the ancient Romans knew enough to use the P.C., not the B.C. dating system!)
373 posted on 11/02/2002 7:19:31 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: berned; Polycarp
Polycarp, you had better answer. berned has put on his cloaca maxima and officially demands it.
374 posted on 11/02/2002 7:22:38 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: DallasMike
Do you know what the word "canon" means and why the Church uses it as a synonym for the Bible?

Canon means list or rule. The Canon of Holy Scripture is the list of books which are in the Holy Bible. "Bible" itself means library. That's how the Holy Bible got it's name. It is a library of the 72 books containing the Divinely inspired Word of God in Holy Scriptures. I personally prefer to refer to the Holy Bible with either the adjective "Holy", to assure others that it is indeed Holy and not just another human "library", or to refer to the Holy Scriptures as "Scriptures", which means Sacred Writings.

The term "canon" is also used in other contexts in and outside the Church for other phenomena associated with "lists" or "rules". For example, "canon law" or a "canonist" being a type of lawyer.

375 posted on 11/02/2002 7:26:06 PM PST by TotusTuus
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To: Sabertooth
Where does the Catholic Church hold that it is infallible?

It would appear that berned has run away.

376 posted on 11/02/2002 7:26:26 PM PST by Denver Ditdat
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To: TotusTuus
Canon means list or rule.

Yes, it means that, but also much more:

Middle English canoun, from Old English canon, and from Old French both from Latin cann, rule, from Greek kann, measuring rod, rule.]
A canon is the standard by which other things are measured. The phrase "it is written" appears approximately 90 times in the New Testament, yet not once does Jesus appeal to tradition or the rules of the religious authorities.

Read Matthew 4 for the story of Christ's temptation by Satan. Jesus certainly could have appealed to Himself, but three times He chose to use Scripture as His final authority. Read also Matthew 15 where Jesus rebukes the Pharisees, asking "why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?"

Note that the thrust of Matthew 15 is to religious authorities who used their religious traditions to usurp Scripture. The religious leaders of the day thought that their traditions supposedly handed down from Moses had the same value as Scripture, but Jesus told them that Scripture was the final authority. Tradition is not bad, but tradition that obscures and negates the Scriptures is.

The early Church had ir right when they called Scripture canon, or the measuring rod.

377 posted on 11/02/2002 8:19:30 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: DonQ
Additionally, Mary, as a devout Jew, would have been observing shiva, a full week of mourning in which the immediate family of the deceased stay home,

BALONEY!!!!!

Then why did Mary Magdelene, Joanna, Salome, and Mary (the mother of James & Joses) all disciples of Jesus Christ, go to the tomb IMMEDIATELY?

Lame "rebuttals" like that do not help your cause.

378 posted on 11/03/2002 9:19:58 AM PST by berned
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To: berned; DonQ
I'm not familiar with the age of the tradition of sitting shiva, but the women whom you cite as visiting the tomb were not immediate family members (who are the ones who usually sit shiva).

So your citation certainly does not prove DonQ's theory false.

379 posted on 11/03/2002 11:02:33 AM PST by wideawake
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To: berned; DonQ
Did a little research.

Sitting shiva is first specifically mentioned in the Mishnah.

The Mishnah was composed of rulings of Jewish sages, many of whom were Jesus' contemporaries, so it makes sense that it was already an old practice at the time of the crucifixion.

According to Jewish law, only parents, spouses, children and brothers and sisters of the immediate family are required to sit shiva.

The practice is considered biblical and is traced to the seven-day mourning period observed by Joseph over his father in Genesis 50:10.

So, far from being "baloney", DonQ's thesis is certainly plausible.

380 posted on 11/03/2002 11:12:23 AM PST by wideawake
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