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THE OKLAHOMA CITY -- 911 CONNECTION
http://twa800.com/news/mastalk-10-10-02.htm ^ | 10/13/02 | Michael Smerconish

Posted on 10/13/2002 4:03:40 PM PDT by JohnFiorentino

The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection By Michael Smerconish mas@mastalk.com

I'M NOT A conspiracy guy. I think Oswald killed Kennedy, and that he acted alone. And, like all Americans, I figured that the tragic bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City was the work of two sick ex-Army guys, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

Now I'm not so sure. Last night, my radio station, the Big Talker 1210, brought three speakers to town for a remarkable presentation: Jayna Davis, a reporter from Oklahoma City; Larry Johnson, ex-deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, and Patrick Lang, Mideast expert formerly of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

In a spellbinding presentation, they made the case for a connection between Mideast terrorism, the Murrah bombing - and the attacks on the Twin Towers. Now I know why former CIA Director James Woolsey has been quoted as saying that when the full truth is known about these acts of terrorism, the nation will owe Davis "a debt of gratitude."

Why her name is not already a household word is the greatest mystery of all. Just this week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that U.S. intelligence has "bulletproof" evidence of links between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. Rumsfeld didn't offer specifics. But here is what we know from the work of Davis.

When the Murrah bombing occurred at 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1995, Davis was a reporter for the NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City. She was among the first journalists to broadcast that an enormous truck bomb had rocked the heartland, killing 168 and injuring hundreds.

In the immediate aftermath of the explosion, the FBI launched an international pursuit of several Middle Eastern-looking men seen fleeing the Murrah Building in a brown Chevy pickup right before the blast. Without explanation, that all-points bulletin was later canceled. Two days later, Timothy McVeigh was a household name. So was Terry Nichols. And that's where most of us left the tale. Stunned, but convinced that two Army buddies, homegrown terrorists, acted alone.

Thankfully, Davis didn't close this book as quickly as most of us did. She pursued the APB and set off to track reports of multiple sightings of McVeigh with an elusive dark-haired accomplice. The infamous sketch of John Doe No. 2 was always tucked firmly in her grip.

Davis soon uncovered that several employees at an Oklahoma City property- management company said they had seen a brown Chevy truck like the getaway vehicle aggressively pursued by law enforcement parked outside their office in the days before the bombing. The company's owner was a Palestinian with a rap sheet and suspected ties to the PLO.

Davis learned that, six months before the bombing, the Palestinian hired a handful of ex-Iraqi soldiers to do maintenance at his rental houses. Eyewitnesses told Davis that they celebrated the bombing.

She was also made aware that these same men were absent from work on April 17, 1995, the day McVeigh rented the Ryder truck that carried the bomb. While pursuing the story of these Middle Eastern men, Davis also became aware of another ex-Iraqi soldier in Oklahoma City named Hussain Hashem Al-Hussaini. She was taken aback to see that Al-Hussaini's picture, when overlaid with the government sketch of John Doe No. 2, was arguably a perfect match. He even sported a tattoo on his upper left arm indicating that he likely had served in Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard. Davis then set about looking for a connection to McVeigh, Nichols, Al-Hussaini and other Iraqis. It came when a colleague located two eyewitnesses who claimed to have independently seen Al-Hussaini drinking beer with McVeigh in an Oklahoma City nightclub just four days before the bombing.

This convinced her station to run with the Iraqi-connection story. It was met with some controversy.

The Justice Department responded that the identification of John Doe No. 2 was merely a case of mistaken identity. Al-Hussaini contacted local reporters, claiming to be falsely accused. Davis did not back off because she believed she could repudiate Al-Hussaini's alibi.

AND SHE LOCATED two dozen witnesses who identified eight specific Middle Eastern men, the majority of whom were ex-Iraqi soldiers, who were seen with McVeigh and Nichols. Two witnesses named Al-Hussaini as the dark-haired, olive-skinned man they observed one block from the Murrah Building just before daybreak on the day of the blast.

She also uncovered evidence that implicated several of Al-Hussaini's co-workers. One of these men was identified as sitting in the driver's seat of a Chevy pickup at an Oklahoma City apartment complex hours before the truck was abandoned on the lot and towed to the FBI command post. According to police records, the truck had been stripped of its vehicle identification numbers and identifying body molding.

The story gathered steam. Here, it would appear, was the deserted pickup that was the same vehicle that was seen speeding away from the vicinity of the Murrah building with two Arab-looking occupants.

And there was more. Five witnesses independently fingered several of Al-Hussaini's associates as frequent visitors to an Oklahoma City motel in the months, days, and hours leading up to 9:02 a.m. on April 19. On numerous occasions, the subjects were seen in the company of McVeigh, and during a few instances, associating with Nichols - at the same motel!

Davis spoke to the motel owner and a maintenance worker who said the men came within feet of a large Ryder truck parked on the west side of the parking lot at 7:40 a.m. on April 19. An unexplained odor of diesel fuel emanated from the rear carriage. Minutes later, McVeigh entered the motel office and returned the room key. The motel owner then saw McVeigh drive off the lot with a man identified as Al-Hussaini.

To this day, the Justice Department has refused to return the original registration logs for the motel.

Davis has 80 pages of affidavits and 2,000 supporting documents, and they suggest not only an Iraqi connection to the Murrah bombing, but also to the attacks against the Twin Towers.

For example, Nichols was a man of modest means. Yet he traveled frequently to the Philippines. Davis discovered that Nichols was there, in Cebu City in December 1994, at the same time as the convicted mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack, Ramzi Yousef.

She has also found evidence that Islamic terrorists boasted of having recruited two "lily whites" for terrorism.

Al-Hussaini had a very American response to Davis' investigation. He sued for defamation. In a ruling on Nov. 17, 1999, federal Judge Timothy Leonard dismissed the case.

In 1995, the federal grand jury proclaimed in the official indictment that McVeigh and Nichols acted with "others unknown." And several members of the Denver juries who convicted the two said publicly that they thought they had help.

Since 1997, Davis has repeatedly tried to interest the FBI in her investigation. She has been rebuffed.

As for Al-Hussaini, after leaving Oklahoma City, he went on to work at Boston's Logan International Airport, the point of origin for several for the 9/11 hijackers, including Mohammad Atta.

One more thing. That motel where McVeigh, Nichols and Al-Hussaini were seen together was later visited (pre-9/11) by Atta, Zacharias Moussaouy and Marwan Al-Shehi.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aluminumfoilalert; bombings; cia; fbi; ntsb; oklahomacity; terrorism; twaflight800
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To: JohnFiorentino
And Oswald used that POS rifle?
61 posted on 10/17/2002 6:33:43 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: Cobra Scott; JohnFiorentino
Len Colodny's Book Silent Coup and one by Peter Dale Scott, i believe covered the circumstances of that crash.
62 posted on 10/17/2002 11:16:34 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: JohnFiorentino
So...um...do you have a book or something coming out?
63 posted on 10/17/2002 12:18:44 PM PDT by Darth Dan
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To: Lockbox
I would also like to add that Clinton was being investigated for Whitewater at the time. I do believe that Oklahoma was the regional center for storage of tax materials. It was rather convenient to have all those records destroyed.
64 posted on 10/17/2002 4:53:05 PM PDT by jcmfreedom
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To: IncPen; Swordmaker
"I also believe Flight 800 was knocked down by a missle."

Most assumed that at the outset too (including James Kallstrom) because of the initial reports of a fiery streak followed immediately by a huge fireball. However, a U.S. satellite detected that Massive Fireball explosion about a mile above the surface, NOT at 13,800 feet where the Initial Event took place at 8:31:12. In short, the fiery events observed by the witnesses took place much later and much lower in the sky than initially assumed. The timeline and location of the major events of the TWA 800 disaster was approximately as follows:

8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.

8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source - The "Missile Witnesses" Myth.

Swordmaker disagrees with that sequential timeline and has posted his own very detailed sequential timeline in FreeRepublic which can be reviewed in its entirety by clicking here. Following are 2 excerpts from it.

20:31:13 - ~13,840 ft. ~1 sec. Missile strikes TWA800 on left side at approximately seat row 16-17 transects the passenger cabin spewing partially burned solid rocket fuel (and leaving a red residue on seats in this area), taking out passengers and seats in rows 17-18 and exits aircraft through right side. VDR ends in loud, strange sound. Bright white Ordnance type explosion occurs just after missile exits thin walled cabin. Blast places massive overpressure on nose of aircraft and opens wide gap in side of aircraft. Parts of missile continue on momentum at speed approaching MACH 2 at a vector 190 degrees from north, ejecta from aircraft including seats, passengers, luggage to eventually land in "crosswind blast debris" field. The blast imparts a slightly more eastward vector for the ejecta which combined with the ejecta's already present eastward momentum results in the ejecta coming to rest about 175 degrees from the point of ejection.

20:31:39:64 - ~7,000 ft. - 27.64 sec. Sixth post IE radar return. - Center Wing Tank explodes from spark caused by MECHANICAL breaking of metal. Volatile air-fuel mix surrounding aircraft ignited into Massive Fireball, Hot fireball begins to RISE, while burning plane falls through bottom of Fireball still spewing liquid fuel which ignites on exit from wingtanks.

That boils down to this:

20:31:13 - ~13,840 ft. Initiating Event - includes bright white Ordnance type explosion. (IE)

20:31:39 - ~7,000 ft. Massive Fireball explosion. (MF)

Note the approximately 26 seconds elapsed time between Initiating Event at 13,840 feet and the Massive Fireball explosion at 7000 feet in Swordmaker's sequential timeline. Yet, New York Air National Guard Major Frederick Meyers, touted as the Star "shootdown" witness by some, clearly indicates in his very detailed report that the elapsed time between the Initiating Event and the Massive Fireball explosion was only 3-4 seconds
Source - The Report of Major Frederick Meyers.

Major Meyer's Own Press Graphic

Note that the "bright white ordnance explosion" referred to by Swordmaker was engulfed by the Massive Fireball explosion as further documented in the following sequential graphics prepared by the New York Air National Guard after debriefing Major Meyer and his Jolly 14 helicopter crewmates.

NYANG Sequential Graphics

Here's a related posting from an author who hasn't yet further clarified his comments therein or published his own sequential timeline.

Yahoo TWA800 forum - 15 March 2002
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: Re: [twa800] A little sensitive, aren't we?
[excerpt][quote]
However, based on Meyer's statements, I don't believe he witnessed the IE. Fl. 800 didn't explode in a MF at 13000+, the MF was somewhere 7500-8500ft. Look at his timeline, Please explain, HOW he could have witnessed the IE?
[end quote]

Another supposedly Star "shootdown" witness is Dwight Brumley. He clearly indicated during at least one interview that he saw the fiery streak disappear under the airliner he was riding in and the emergence of the Massive Fireball 1-2 seconds later. It should go without saying he could not possibly have seen a missile shoot down Flight 800 at 13,800 feet only 1-2 seconds before he saw the Massive Fireball explosion at about 5500-7500 feet. In fact, he's even quoted during another of his interviews as stating: "I could not positively say that what I saw was a missile. What I saw was a very bright flame of light moving parallel to my aircraft".
Source - Witness Dwight Brumley Interviews.

As earlier noted, Swordmaker's very detailed complete sequential timeline is available for your review and that of other interested readers by clicking here.

65 posted on 10/18/2002 6:42:56 PM PDT by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus
Interesting stuff. I'll follow the links and see where they go.

Color me skeptical, but interested.

66 posted on 10/18/2002 10:26:11 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: Asmodeus
I believe I DID post my timeline on another thread Barr. I believe you read it.........If you didn't, it was the ONLY thing you seem to have missed from me...And, no, before you ask me to waste more time......I'm not going to re-post it......YOU dig it up, and post it yourself........Something you ARE an "expert" at.
67 posted on 10/26/2002 5:58:54 AM PDT by JohnFiorentino
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To: IncPen; Swordmaker; JohnFiorentino
It will be noted that Swordmaker has chosen not to try to defend his "shootdown" sequential timeline todate and that John Fiorentino, who continues to appear to be a "bomb" guy (see below & prior postings in this thread), believes he posted his own sequential timeline somewhere sometime in the past but is unwilling or unable to provide the readers with the URL.

Yahoo TWA800 forum - 18 June 2001
From: John Fiorentino
Subject: The most likely scenario so far
[excerpt][quote][emphasis added]
Officials July 29 said that the event that triggered the crash appeared to have taken place toward the front of the plane. However, probers August 12 said they were focusing their examination on the center of the airplane, where the craft's wings met. Cantamessa July 29 said that the bodies of passengers seated near the front of the plane had more severe injuries than those in the rear section. Probers July 30 said that heavy damage to the recovered landing gear supported the theory that a bomb went off in the plane's forward section. [end quote]

From: John Fiorentino - Yahoo TWA 800 Forum - 18 June 2001
Subject: The most likely scenario so far.
From: John Fiorentino - 18 June 2001
Subject: The most likely scenario so far
[excerpt][quote][emphasis added]
Just for s--ts and grins my son and I popped off a road flare and placed it close to the back of a discarded child car seat which had a foam backing to it. Left a reddish brown residue very similar to Sanders' swatch. Remember My scientist friend who thought the chem analysis resembled residue from a "flare?" [end quote]

68 posted on 10/26/2002 12:02:44 PM PDT by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus
Asmodeus,

There is no need to "defend" my timeline... it speaks for itself... and is based MORE than two witnesses. As I pointed out in MY timeline, it is YOUR sequence of events and YOUR timeline that does not fit with the physical data from the radar returns.

You have presented NOTHING new and merely continue to push YOUR website as your authoritative source.
69 posted on 10/26/2002 1:27:11 PM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Swordmaker
"There is no need to "defend" my timeline... it speaks for itself... and is based MORE than two witnesses."

Who are the witnesses you're claiming to be relying on for your approximately 26 seconds elapsed time between the Initiating Event and the Massive Fireball explosion and where are their reports and reference source URL's for the readers to review their reports?

70 posted on 10/26/2002 1:56:56 PM PDT by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus; JohnFiorentino
"...where are their reports and reference source URL's for the readers to review their reports?

What readers are those, Asmodeus?

Other than you, John Fiorentino, and I, the last reader was here more than a week ago. John and I know that you are full of it and we are NOT going to able to make you change your tune... so why waste the effort.

For what it is worth, my timeline is based on more than two witnesses... it is based on objective observations, actual timed events, and the laws of physics, as well as eye witness reports.

71 posted on 10/26/2002 5:24:45 PM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Swordmaker
From your sequential timeline:

21:31:07 - Mike Wire notices flare like object rising over house and arcing to left. In the next 8 seconds many more people notice streak, firework, etc.

So let's focuse once again on your allegation that approximately 26 seconds elapsed between the Initiating Event and Massive Fireball explosion in the following two times/places/events you have also alleged -

20:31:13 - ~13,840 ft. - Initiating Event, includes bright white Ordnance type explosion. (IE)

20:31:39 - ~7,000 ft. - Massive Fireball explosion. (MF)

- and compare that to the following:

"That one eyewitness is Michael Wire, a machinery expert who was working on a new drawbridge on Beach Lane, a road running from Westhampton, Long Island, to the beach. Wire's FBI report says that standing on the bridge, looking toward the beach, he saw a white light just above the rooftop of a house about 900 feet away, ascending from the ground at about a 40 degree angle. It "sparkled" and he thought it was fireworks. It "zig zagged" as it traveled upward and was going south-southeast when it "arched over" and disappeared from view. Two or three seconds later he saw an orange light that appeared to be a fireball in the sky about half a mile away. It was falling at about a 30-degree angle, with a fire trail burning behind it." Source - Donaldson Brothers TWA800 "Shootdown" Website

Note that the "two or three seconds is almost exactly the same as witness Meyer's 3-4 seconds and witness Brumley's 1-2 seconds but in all 3 cases over 20 seconds less than the 26 seconds elapsed time between the IE and MF you have alleged.

The "shootdown" scenario alleged in your sequential timeline is entirely dependent on whether the elapsed time in question was about 1-4 seconds or the 26 seconds you have contended.

It appears that NONE of the "shootdown" website authors have endorsed your sequential timeline by including it in their sites. However, it is now here.

72 posted on 10/28/2002 3:54:13 PM PST by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus; JohnFiorentino; acehai
YOU are confabulating the initiating event and a small fireball at approximately 13,800 feet with the Massive Fireball of the fuel explosion at 7000 feet... two entirely different explosions. Mike Wire's FBI report IS NOT the event, nor does Mike Wire endorse the secondhand recollections of an FBI agent as reported in the FBI's version of his statement.

I will not respond on this thread again as it merely is for your gratification since there are NO other readers or posters here.



73 posted on 10/28/2002 11:33:24 PM PST by Swordmaker
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To: Swordmaker
Major Meyer's report includes his very specific estimates of the elapsed times between the fiery events he saw in the sky and that report puts the time of the bright white light explosion at only 3-4 seconds before the Massive Fireball explosion. Your allegation that the bright white light explosion took place at 13,800 feet where the Initiating Event took place is obviously in conflict with his report.
74 posted on 10/30/2002 9:15:42 AM PST by Asmodeus
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