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Marines in fatal assault had no ammo
CNN ^
Posted on 10/09/2002 6:56:25 AM PDT by Bill Davis FR
Edited on 04/29/2004 2:01:24 AM PDT by Jim Robinson.
[history]
When U.S. Marines were fired on by two Kuwaiti nationals during a training exercise Tuesday, they had no way of defending themselves, U.S. officials said.
The Marines were practicing urban warfare tactics on Failaka Island in the Persian Gulf and were carrying no ammunition for their weapons, U.S. officials said.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
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To: Bill Davis FR
can you believe this...military personnel posted to a war zone with no ammo...best of the desperate are in command...thanks bill clinton...
To: Bill Davis FR
Bill, did you read the article that you posted?
To: Bill Davis FR
Real ammo??? They might hurt themselves... Stupid military.
4
posted on
10/09/2002 7:01:59 AM PDT
by
cynicom
To: Bill Davis FR
When I first learned of this incident I thought "the ragheads are getting braver, they actually attacked someone that can shoot back!".
I should have known.
5
posted on
10/09/2002 7:04:35 AM PDT
by
Howie
To: Bill Davis FR
"non-live fire exercise..."This is why the Marines did not have ammo. It was a training exercise.
6
posted on
10/09/2002 7:04:44 AM PDT
by
jbstrick
To: jbstrick
When you are in a potentially hostile area you need to have ammo. Everyone remembers that the guards at the Beirut marine barracks didn't have ammo either.
7
posted on
10/09/2002 7:08:14 AM PDT
by
LarryM
To: Bill Davis FR
Clearly, the people who think this is a big deal have no military experience with combat units.
According to the link, this was a non-live fire exercise. Such exercises are extremely common, because you cannot train against an opposing force with live ammo. Otherwise, you'll be killing your own people. There have been plenty of training accidents where exactly that scenario occured --troops who were supposed to have blanks only somehow ended up with live rounds. In most cases, nobody gets hurt. But in some very tragic ones, people have been killed.
Every non-live fire training exercise I ever organized or led began with checking each Marine to ensure that they did not have any live ammunition.
8
posted on
10/09/2002 7:08:55 AM PDT
by
XJarhead
To: jbstrick
haha...you must be one of the best of the desperates...the middle east is not a training exercise area...
To: cynicom
Using live ammunition in a training exercise not designed for such use is extremely hazardous to the health of young marines.
Since the terrorists have assumed room temperature courtesy of the USMC, we can deduce that someone did have live ammunition, knew how to use it, and swung into action when required.
When I hear the voice of ignorance calling someone stupid, I am not impressed.
To: Bill Davis FR
Bill Clinton has been gone a long time now. Be assured if the Marines were not carrying ammo, it was due to the Rules of Engagment (ROE_ set by much higher up than Clinton-holdovers. Put the blame where it belongs: Rumsfeld and the Operational Commanders. And if there are Clinton holdovers, why has not Rumsfeld gotten rid of them?
The cornerstone of leadership is responsibility and accountability. If the ROEs are STILL screwed up now, after two years of Bush in office, then the buck stops with Rumsfeld. The buck stops with them.
11
posted on
10/09/2002 7:11:17 AM PDT
by
fogarty
To: XJarhead
"Every non-live fire training exercise I ever organized or led began with checking each Marine to ensure that they did not have any live ammunition. "
The voice of reason amongst the cacaphony of ignorance. Thank you for educating the clueless.
To: Bill Davis FR
Early in the article:
The Marines were practicing urban warfare tactics on Failaka Island in the Persian Gulf and were carrying no ammunition for their weapons, U.S. officials said.
Later:
The shootout happened about 11:15 a.m. (4:15 a.m. ET) Tuesday...
SOMEBODY had some bullets. The story is inconsistent.
To: XJarhead
One thing to look at is local security. If in fact Marines were undergoing a training exercise with no ammo in a particular sensitive area of the world (with almost all forces at Force Protection Alpha or Bravo), you would think there would local security assigned, with live ammo. At the very least, road guards with live ammo.
We need to look at the ROE for the MAGTF, who established it, and why. Idiotic ROEs have caused the deaths of Marines before - and it may be the case here also.
14
posted on
10/09/2002 7:14:36 AM PDT
by
fogarty
To: fogarty
...The cornerstone of leadership is responsibility and accountability...it will take ten years to replace these best of the desperates...in the meantime men will die...
To: Bill Davis FR
There is no excuse for this. If the marines in training are not issued live ammo then there should be suffcient external security posted to prevent such attacks.
I don't believe how many people are willing to excuse this sort of incompetence.
16
posted on
10/09/2002 7:14:48 AM PDT
by
Seruzawa
To: Bill Davis FR
"can you believe this...military personnel posted to a war zone with no ammo...best of the desperate are in command...thanks bill clinton..."
It is October, 2002. What on Earth does Clinton have to do with any of this? It's one thing to criticize Clinton for his real misdeeds, but blaming him for everything that goes wrong borders on lunacy.
17
posted on
10/09/2002 7:15:28 AM PDT
by
mg39
To: Bill Davis FR
"haha...you must be one of the best of the desperates...the middle east is not a training exercise area... "
You might be given more credence if you limit your comments to those subjects where you are better informed. Training occurs routinely in combat zones. If it is not, you are in real trouble. Do not try this at home, leave it to the professionals.
To: Bill Davis FR
Of course they didn't have live ammo- they were training in a force-on-force exercise. However, they likely had non-exercise security also.
SOMEBODY shot back, quickly, because the terrs are KIA.
19
posted on
10/09/2002 7:16:25 AM PDT
by
xsrdx
To: Bill Davis FR
I am flabbergasted that someone is startled
that the military does not use live ammo in training exercises. It is plain that security and live ammo was in the area.
20
posted on
10/09/2002 7:18:36 AM PDT
by
dwilli
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