Bush to OK Guns for Airline Pilots

AP via The NY Times ^ | 5 September 2002 | AP

[SBeck]

Bush to OK Guns for Airline Pilots
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 6:37 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted overwhelmingly Thursday to allow commercial pilots to carry weapons in the cockpit after the Bush administration dropped its opposition to the idea.

The administration, though, said a number of safety and logistical issues needed to be resolved.

In a letter to two senators, the White House recommended giving pilots lockboxes for the weapons so they won't be left in the cockpit. It also said only pilots who volunteer to carry weapons and receive extensive training should be armed.

Al Aitken, a pilot speaking for the 14,500-member union representing American Airlines pilots, which supports arming pilots, said the 87-6 vote meant the Senate recognized that all the security layers the administration is putting into place are still inadequate.

``The people who need the weapons as a last line of defense are the pilots,'' he said. ``They're the only ones they're trying to keep the gun from,'' he said, adding that thousands of state and federal law enforcement officers travel on planes while armed.

The heads of 21 airlines, which oppose the measure, sent a letter to each senator Thursday saying they wanted to discuss the idea of arming pilots with Congress and the administration.

``It must be noted, however, that while we are spending literally billions of dollars to keep dangerous weapons off of aircraft, the idea of intentionally introducing thousands of deadly weapons in to the system appears to be dangerously counterproductive,'' the letter said.

To address some of the airlines' concerns, the administration suggested a ``detailed, effective'' training program be designed from scratch and tested before an estimated 85,000 pilots are allowed to carry weapons.

The administration also warned the cost would be significant -- $900 million to start and $250 million annually thereafter -- and said there is no money now in the Transportation Security Administration budget to cover the expenses.

The letter from Transportation Security Administration chief James Loy was delivered to Sens. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., and John McCain, R-Ariz., as the Senate debated the measure that would allow all pilots to carry guns into the cockpit. Hollings is chairman of the Senate Commerce and Transportation Committee; McCain is the committee's ranking Republican.

``If there is to be responsible legislation establishing a program to allow guns in the cockpit, it must address the numerous safety, security, cost and operational issues,'' Loy wrote.

Sen. Bob Smith, R-N.H., offered the amendment to the homeland security bill that would prohibit airlines and the federal government from barring armed pilots.

``We prefer a more comprehensive approach in our amendment, but are grateful for any efforts by the administration to roll the ball down the field,'' said Smith's spokeswoman, Lisa Harrison.

The chairman of the House Transportation Committee's aviation subcommittee, Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., said pilots should be armed at least until bulletproof cockpit doors are installed in all planes.

The Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that manufacturers and airlines agree an April 9 deadline to install the new doors can be met.

Mica said the administration realized that the momentum in Congress favoring arming pilots is strong. A bill to create a program that would train and arm some pilots passed the House 310-113 in July.

Transportation Undersecretary John Magaw, who headed the TSA until July, said in May he would not allow pilots to carry guns. Reinforced cockpits and armed air marshals provide enough protection against terrorists who try to take over an airplane, Magaw said.

After Magaw's departure, Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said he would re-examine the issue.

[CWRWinger]

when will he go??

With Powell, I hope. The sooner the better.

[aviator]

I think that the senate realizes we are going to war and are completely unprepared for massive retaliation by terrorists to our airline system. The system of smoke and mirrors to calm the flying public is judged inadequate for the threat.

We need guns in the cockpit now. I don't trust lockboxes as they would likely have a common key or combo, making them easy to steal by mechanics or cleaning personnel.

I agree that the mental training is most important. Hitting a target from 2 feet away is not the challenge. The cockpit doors are strong enough now that considerable force and noise would give plenty of notice to the pilots that it is time to get a gun pointed at the door.

I fly a commercial airliner and am responsible for many lives. If anyone breaks into my cockpit, I already know that the lives of everyone in my airplane are forfeit except for my actions. This is the reality. We need guns NOW.

For the curious, I have killed during service to my country in Vietnam while flying an airplane up close and personal. They were trying to kill me. I have 20 years as a military pilot and own about 6 pistols and 6 rifles. I shoot at the range as often as I can. I will pay for any training myself.

[tall_tex]

My thoughts to your 1, 2, & 3.

1. Pilots easy to identify and become targets.. They
already are targets. Flight crews need a separate
and secure area to board their flights. Screend, ID's
authenticated, out of sight from the flying public. The evil do'ers will not know which pilot is carrying
and who is not. Of course all in the cockpit should.
The few pilots who are allowed to carry need their own
weapons. They know them, are trained to use them, have
practiced with them. It is called conceal and carry.

2. Allow the airport police time to respond?
Airport police, taking time to put on their Superman
capes, blue tights and thigh high black boots so they
can attempt to leap a tall building in a single bounce
if I am on that flight that is getting hijacked. Well
only if they are as as good as the D.C. Park Police, in
that case I just may have to recosider.

3. Electronic opening of a lock box from an off site
location? Why offer to give them weapons if you are
not going to allow them access? Might just want to
put the guns in the cargo area, with the dogs and cats?
Cutting a throat, sticking a pen or pencil in an ear
tales a split second. Waiting for a donut eating,
coffie drinking federal employee to get permission from
his supervisor who is in the restroom reading the news
paper, if he can read English, to give his permission
to unlock the box so the pilot can get to his gun when
when he has a terrorist "trying", breaking through his
"maybe someday", fortified cockpit door.

Lock boxes, trigger locks, are all PC and an easy way out of doing the correct thing. Tom

[tall_tex]

I have been trained when threatened to get my weapon locked, loaded, and aim for center mass as quickly as possible. I have been trained to slit a throat as quickly as possible, I have received no training at all to dial a combination on a safe, remove my weapon and fire. Man, even if I had been, my throat and someday secured cockpit door would have been breached. My blood every where, shoulder holster, thier bood every where. If I get a choice, I choose the latter. What say you? Tom

[tall_tex]

Discusting votes, although not unsuspected. Thanks for your post.

[Bob J]

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[Blood of Tyrants]

If you believe that Bush has "seen the light", you are wrong. The ONLY reason that Bush is agreeing to this token measure now is that Dasshole has announced that the Senate will vote on Sen. Smith and Sen. Miller's bill to remove all control over arming the pilots from the White House. Bush hopes to appease some of the senators and defeat the bill and preserve his empire.

98% of the pilots will still be unarmed and 100% of the airports will still be "secured" by idiots.

[Blood of Tyrants]

If training is a big deal, then simply provide an instructor and shooting range at every airport. On a long layover, the pilot can squeeze off a few rounds and keep his proficiency at it's peak.

[tall_tex]

See my post #43, agree or not your thoughts would be great. Tom

[Republic]

Lots oh cry babies here-never satisfied! I LOVE THIS! I have been for it and disappointed that the WH took a different opinion. This is JUST GREAT! Go PRESIDENT BUSH! This is absolutely the right thing to do and already makes me feel better about air travel. WAY TO GO! ( And thank you President Bush, for outfoxing um! I LOVE YA~!)

[caltrop]

I couldn't agree with you more. They're simply trying to come up with devices to avoid doing the right thing.

Too bad we don't have a President who actually believes in the 2nd Amendment. If we did, this issue would have been satisfactorily settled before it came up.

[TN4Liberty]

I just heard on the radio (ABC I think) that now a group of flight attendants is protesting DEMANDING to be trained and armed. They point out that women are in the military and law enforcement.

One big factor that I think is overlooked in this discussion or arming pilots is that if potential badguys don't know if the pilot (or crew) is armed, any plans they have to take over a plane would be much more complicated. Just as unarmed citizens benefit by the fact that criminals don't KNOW who is armed and who isn't, flights with unarmed pilots will be safer because potential hijackers don't konw which planes are protected and which aren't. That additional ucertainty may have prevented the 9/11 operation. After all, they KNEW no one else on the plane would be armed, so all they needed was a boxcutter.

[tall_tex]

I will take your post one step further... Require all to take training and qualify for C&C. Those who do not take firearm training and do not pass, can become screeners at our "secure" airports. Tom

[tall_tex]

It is both physical and mental, plus the training and the will to survie. Tom

[rockfish59]

Law abiding passengers next!

[tall_tex]

I think you had a mild momet of memory lapse. You are thinking lock box and we remember the "Chastity Belt" he wore in the Pic of his Package, prior the election day, both probably had a combination, both are most assuredly empty.

[tall_tex]

Under

[tall_tex]

NY Times sell more newspapers and ADVERTISING when the EVIL DO'ER'S strike. Follow the money... Tom

[tall_tex]

Wonder which airlines are prostesting. Just want to know which ones I will never fly, but will maybe fly the few that are not protesting and are promoting their pilots to carry, if any are. In the mean time, my Tahoe is good for the trips to OKC. Wanted to take my lady to Las Vegas for our 39th, even though I have a whole bunch of frequent flyer miles and could fly free, did not want to support any airline untill they get their stuff together.

[tall_tex]

You did hit "CENTER MASS", I get the feeling that you have been there and done that on several previous occasions. I am seldom wrong, of course my wife thinks that it happens far more often than seldom, but she is a woman and they are never wrong... Tom