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Scientists attempt to measure speed of gravity
spaceflightnow.com ^ | 5 SEP 02 | staff

Posted on 09/05/2002 9:08:22 AM PDT by RightWhale

Scientists attempt to measure speed of gravity

UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI NEWS RELEASE

Posted: September 4, 2002

Ever since Albert Einstein proposed the general theory of relativity in 1916, physicists worldwide have tested the theory's underlying principles. Whil some principles - such as the speed of light is a constant - have been proven, others have enot. Now, through a combination of modern technology, the alignment of a unique group of celestial bodies on Sept. 8, and an experiment conceived by a University of Missouri-Columbia physicist, one more of those principles might soon be proven.

"According to Einstein's theory, the speed of gravity is assumed to be equal to the speed of light," said Sergei Kopeikin, MU associate professor of physics and astronomy. "While there is indirect evidence this is true, the speed has never been measured directly, and that's what we're attempting to do in an experiment that will not be possible again for another decade."

The experiment will involve precisely measuring the angular distances between several quasars, celestial objects in distant galaxies that resemble stars. On Sept. 8, Jupiter will pass very close to the primary quasar. When it does, its gravity will cause the quasar's position in the sky to shift by a distance that depends on the speed of gravity. Kopeikin and Ed Fomalont, a radio astronomer with the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO), will use an observational technique they developed to compare the position of the primary quasar to the position of other quasars unaffected by Jupiter. Using their data, they hope to confirm the accuracy of Einstein's theory further.

Measurements will be made using the NRAO's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), a series of 10, 25-meter radio telescopes located from the Virgin Islands to Hawaii, and the 100-meter radio telescope in Effelsberg, Germany, which is operated by the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy. "Results from recent VLBA test observations indicate we can reach the accuracy necessary to determine the speed of gravity if the experiment goes well," Fomalont said.

"Japanese and NASA scientists also will conduct the experiment independently using other telescopes around the world, so we'll be able to compare our findings," Kopeikin said. "We believe the general theory of relativity is correct and that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light."

"The techniques we've employed for this experiment can also be used to more precisely determine the position of other objects in space," Fomalont said. "With more exact positioning of satellites, we could improve telecommunications. Unmanned space navigation could also be improved, allowing us to explore the solar system more deliberately."

The scientists said final results from the experiment should be available in mid-November.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: einsteinrelativity; gravity; physics; realscience; speedoflight
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its gravity will cause the quasar's position in the sky to shift by a distance that depends on the speed of gravity

Is this a fair statement?

1 posted on 09/05/2002 9:08:22 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: Alamo-Girl; Physicist
gravity bump
2 posted on 09/05/2002 9:09:27 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"According to Einstein's theory, the speed of gravity is assumed to be equal to the speed of light..."

Gravity and light must be the same thing. The unified field has been solved. I will accept my Nobel now.

3 posted on 09/05/2002 9:15:57 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: RightWhale
" While some principles - such as the speed of light is a constant - have been proven"

Even this statement is currently being reconsidered.

Einstein's relativity theory hits a speed bump.

4 posted on 09/05/2002 9:18:44 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: RightWhale
Thanks for the heads up!
5 posted on 09/05/2002 9:35:56 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: RightWhale
Sound like "its gravity will cause the quasar's apparent position in the sky to shift by a distance that depends on the speed of gravity" would be a more fair statement.
6 posted on 09/05/2002 9:39:18 AM PDT by john in missouri
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To: Joe Brower
Isn't FR great? We can discuss the speed of gravity and the attempted assassination in Afghanistan at the same time.
7 posted on 09/05/2002 9:40:07 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: john in missouri
Just wondering if this is the same idea as the measurement of the speed of light done a long time ago by observing and timing the orbits of Jupiter's moons.
8 posted on 09/05/2002 9:41:54 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: *RealScience; Ernest_at_the_Beach
fyi
9 posted on 09/05/2002 9:48:27 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: RightWhale
Isn't FR great? We can discuss the speed of gravity and the attempted assassination in Afghanistan at the same time.

Har-har! Yes, it is great. As long as we don't overdo making "light" of the situation over there in that sad, sad place.

10 posted on 09/05/2002 9:48:29 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: Joe Brower
The speed of light is not a constant. Every physicist knows
this.
11 posted on 09/05/2002 9:50:39 AM PDT by Trickyguy
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To: RightWhale
I had no idea gravity had "speed." I knew that on earth it produces acceleration of 32 ft. sec/sec. By speed, do they mean the rate at which the gravitational pull of an object reaches a given point?
12 posted on 09/05/2002 9:50:42 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: RightWhale
I wonder if they mean that the perceived location of the quasar in the sky will change, or if the position will physically change? The gravitational law says the force exerted on one body by another is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Jupiter has a relatively small mass compared to stars, and probably to quasars. I would expect Jupiter to move more than the quasars will. Of course, Jupiter may move more due to the influence of its moons, the other planets, and the sun than to quasars that are light years away. Do you think these students are smart enough to figure all of this out?

None of these bodies are stationary - everything is in motion. Jupiter about the sun, the solar system about the center of the galaxy, the quasars in motion about some unseen point. The perceived location of the quasars today is not the actual physical position of them right now - we are seeing light from them where they were however many light years ago.

Since the quasars are so many light years away from Jupiter, it will take at least that many years (if speed of gravity equals the speed of light) for any perceptible change in the motion of Jupiter or the quasars to be affected by each other. If the speed of gravity is less than the speed of light, it will take longer for them (however many light years plus the difference in the speeds) to find out. I think they will be a lot older when they figure this out!

Methinks this is either a hoax or a simplicity of thought by the university professors and/or students.
13 posted on 09/05/2002 9:50:55 AM PDT by RandyRep
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To: RightWhale
I personally don't believe that gravity has a speed at all, it just is. At the Big Bang, (if you believe that theory) gravity was created instantaneously along with all matter. If that is the case the effects of gravity would be present in all locations at the same time. Therefore, gravity has no speed, it is a universal constant. IMHO
14 posted on 09/05/2002 9:58:12 AM PDT by semaj
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To: RandyRep
I think really poorly written

Jupiter getting really close to a Quasar, close enough for its gravity to move the quasar even a bit, I think not.

Perhaps, Jupiter will be really close to the line between the earth and the Quasar, and bend the light coming from the quasar on its way to earth.

15 posted on 09/05/2002 9:59:19 AM PDT by Triple
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To: RightWhale
Just wondering if this is the same idea as the measurement of the speed of light done a long time ago by observing and timing the orbits of Jupiter's moons.

Offhand, it sounds like a rather complex calculation to me, involving the expected displacement of light coming from the quasar at various moments in time during which the gravitational effect should be observable, and given the known information about Jupiter's gravitational force, the speed of light, etc.

16 posted on 09/05/2002 10:01:13 AM PDT by john in missouri
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To: RadioAstronomer; ThinkPlease; aBootes; VadeRetro; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; general_re
gravitational speed limit ping
17 posted on 09/05/2002 10:03:17 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
By speed, do they mean the rate at which the gravitational pull of an object reaches a given point?

That's how I take it.

In other words, if you could suddenly materialize the planet Jupiter out of nonexistence, how long would it take us here on earth fo feel a gravitational tug? If the theory is correct, we should feel the first tug of gravity at the same moment as the first light waves from the planet also reach us -- the very moment it becomes visible.

18 posted on 09/05/2002 10:04:51 AM PDT by john in missouri
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To: Trickyguy
Well there, Trickyguy, I guess I'm glad I'm not a physicist, then.
19 posted on 09/05/2002 10:06:55 AM PDT by Joe Brower
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To: Trickyguy
The speed of light is not a constant

Thank you for the clarification.

20 posted on 09/05/2002 10:10:24 AM PDT by RightWhale
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