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AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR
08/23/02 | Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, Houston Fire Department Fire/Arson Investigations

Posted on 08/25/2002 5:31:16 PM PDT by COB1

About three months ago, under the advice of the Texas Attorney General's office, I wrote a registered letter to Joyce M. Carter of the Medical Examiner's Office of Harris County in Houston, Texas, requesting the coroner's report on Herbert Paul Meadows, known to us as CHIEF Negotiator, who died in a fire at his house on October 4, 2001.

That report along with the Houston Fire Department's report on the investigation of that fire has finally arrived.

Without going into the technical aspects of the autopsy report, CHIEF Negotiator's death was ruled as accidental due to smoke inhalation.

NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY:

From the Arson Bureau's report:

"The fire originated at floor level approximately 4 feet west of the east wall adjacent to the south wall in the formal dining area. At this point the sheetrock on the south wall shows calcination along the south wall approximately 6 feet in length in the area below the southeast window. This suggests an area of intense burning and high heat.
The wood wall base trim at the area of origin was deeply charred by the fire. A wooden dining set of 4 wooden chairs and a wooden table were almost completely consumed by the fire. Small charred pieces of the table and chairs were all that remained.
The fire was very intense in the dining room area and spread to the adjacent rooms to the east, west and north. These rooms sustained high heat and fire damage from the fire spread. The fire consumed wooden doors separating the dining room from the kitchen and family room. Burn patterns were consistent with a fire moving from the dining room area into the adjacent rooms."

These next pics I took through the window shown by the arrow:

Continuing with the Arson Bureau's report:

"Investigators observed that the north side garage entry door was kicked open and that a partial shoe print was found on the door. This investigator was unable to determine if the door was forced by firefighters or was forced prior to the fire."[italics and bold mine]

------------------------- From the Arson Bureau's report:

-------------------------

"Captain ------ of L-36 told Investigator ------ that he found the deceased Herbert Paul Meadows lying in a fetal position, with his head against the west wall in the bathroom near the den. Firefighters dragged the victim to the driveway where he was pronounced dead by paramedics of Squad 40."

--------------------------

"Engineer ------- of L-36 reported that he observed two tripped electrical breakers when he shut off the electrical power."

-------------------------

Investigator ------- went to St. Lukes Emergency Room to interview --------(Mrs.) Meadows who is the wife of the deceased. --------(Mrs.) Meadows was transported by H.F.D. ambulance after the fire. -------(Mrs.) Meadows was treated for smoke inhalation and had been medicated by the hospital but she was able to relate details of the fire.
(Mrs.) Meadows told investigators that she and her husband Herbert watched a late night T.V. show and then she had went to bed while her husband Herbert had went into the den to work on the computer.
Mrs. Meadows stated that she was in bed about 10 minutes as was not asleep when she heard a 'noise or crash'. Mrs. Meadows said the sound 'was like something going through a window'. These sounds came from the other side of the house where her husband was working. This sound was followed by loud screams. (sic)'Was like something going through a window!' She described the sounds made by her husband as 'like I never heard him scream in my life!'
-----(Mrs.) Meadows reported she ran down the hall toward the dining area and was stopped by the thick black smoke in the kitchen area. ----- (Mrs. Meadows) yelled at her husband and asked him if (sic) see needed to call '911'! (Mrs. Meadows) stated that she heard a 'muffled' 'yes!' and then lost contact with Herbert Meadows. (Mrs. Meadows) told investigator that she smelled a 'bar-b-que' type odor like 'when you light a fire with charcoal lighter fluid'. (Mrs. Meadows) attempted to call for help on a phone in the house but she reported the phone was dead. (sic) Meadows went outside in the front yard and yelled for help.

------------------

From notes of the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office:

"Arson inv. reveals no..(crossed out).. flammable fluids"
"The investigators.. (crossed out).. smelled gas at scene"
"Not sure if they are ruling arson or not"


TOPICS: Breaking News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: autopsyreport; chiefnegotiator; freepermurder; investigation; rip; taxreform; usmc
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To: lewislynn
Yes, or someone using aluminum wire for a small electrical job because that's what they happen to have. I believe the code was changed to prohibit aluminum wire in the mid-70's --- but a whole lot of houses were built with it and a whole lot of people didn't really take the warnings seriously.
81 posted on 08/25/2002 6:55:55 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: DainBramage
The fire had to burn incredibly fast for the Chief to not be able to make it out. I will admit I know basically nothing about fires, but could any type of non-arson fire cause this?
82 posted on 08/25/2002 6:56:09 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: piasa
Swelling and discoloration are consistent with burns...
I understand that discoloration of the skin happens in such circumstances, but the hair itself?
83 posted on 08/25/2002 6:56:40 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: COB1
CHIEF NEGOTIATOR was a great poster and FR supporter. May he rest in peace.
84 posted on 08/25/2002 6:58:33 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: COB1
Thank You Brother for this report.
85 posted on 08/25/2002 7:00:50 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: MistyCA
Where do you see that (i.e., specific identification of "gas" as meaning "gasline")? I think arson reports refer to accelerants as accelerants and then go on to identify the partcular type if it can be established (l.e., gasoline, kerosine, etc.). In Houston, natural gas is/was/may be used for stoves, water heaters, air conditioners, clothes dryers, even for yard lamps --- so it would be natural to be on the "lookout" for gas as a cause or contributor to a fire there.
86 posted on 08/25/2002 7:01:31 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: COB1
(Sad) BUMP for the Chief. Thank you for the update.
87 posted on 08/25/2002 7:03:12 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: COB1
Depending on where the fire had spread, kicking open that garage door would have been a natural thing for the firefighters to do in order to ventilate the house. They would want to move as much smoke as possible in order to see what they were fighting and find victims. I would lean against believing that this door being open is a clue to a crime.
88 posted on 08/25/2002 7:03:59 PM PDT by WFTR
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To: rwfromkansas
Depends on the fire load, and what type of accelerants in the room that are there naturally, like fingernail polish, alchohol, etc.

If he were in another room with the door closed when it started, then it could have reached flashover point in a few minutes. Then the window breaks out and feeds it plenty of air, he goes running to the room, opens the door and begins to try to put it out and gets his hands burned, then is overcome by smoke. Just one scenario, who knows.

If the investigator used a sniffer in the rooom where the fire originated he would know what and how much accelerant was used if any.

89 posted on 08/25/2002 7:04:03 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: COB1
What bothers me is that the fire was so advanced when first observed by the wife. Unless CN feel asleep himself, I don't understand how things could have progressed to the point that he couldn't leave the room before the fire got too big to handle.

Were the phone wires cut? Why was the phone dead, unless the computer was on the only line.

Was there window glass on the inside of the burned room? A burning room would blow the glass out, not in.

Something smells rotten. Gone for only ten minutes, the wife returns to a room filled with fire, a husband beyond help.

Perhaps all this is explainable. Sure raises questions in my mind.

90 posted on 08/25/2002 7:04:10 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: COB1; Dog Gone
That just sucks! The whole thing sucks IMO! Now I'm mad all over again!
I still don't think "lighter fluid" is "the answer". That's BS!
I'll go with what Dog Gone stated earlier, Herb was no fool.
91 posted on 08/25/2002 7:04:27 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: COB1
It obviously became extremely hot in those rooms very quickly. This wasn't a home with high ceilings, and the heat and smoke would have gotten down to knee or ankle level very quickly.

If Herb thought that he could fight the fire by getting to a water source (the bathroom) he misjudged the seriousness of the situation and was quickly overcome by the smoke and fumes. That's not entirely surprising. His instinct would have been to defend his property from the flames, I think. I would guess that most of those burns on his body came after he was unconcious.

92 posted on 08/25/2002 7:06:06 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: COB1; Snow Bunny; FallGuy; Victoria Delsoul; JohnHuang2; LadyX; coteblanche; WVNan; AntiJen; ...
AUTOPSY AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS ON THE DEATH OF CHIEF NEGOTIATOR

FYI PING
93 posted on 08/25/2002 7:06:50 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: COB1
Thanks for posting this. There are so many questions, and very few answers. I wish that I could feel that somebody is working on this, but after this length of time, the odds of an arrest are diminishing each day. I hope that I'm wrong and that the police are on the ball, but I fear not.

I think of the Chief often, he was a man worth admiring and there are far too few of those in this world. May God rest his soul and bring peace to his family and friends.

94 posted on 08/25/2002 7:07:12 PM PDT by DeSoto
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The Chief's FR homepage.....
95 posted on 08/25/2002 7:07:36 PM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: WFTR
Also if you look at the drawing, the hoseline came in from the unburned side of the house. If the crew that had opened the garage door had come in there with a line they would have steamed the other crew or visa virsa. It would be hard to tell without being there or interviewing the crews at the fire.

It could be that it was opened during overhaul too, which is after the fire is extinguished.

96 posted on 08/25/2002 7:08:23 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: sailor4321
I had on-going communication with the investigators for months. That information and other information was related to me from various sources. I might note that there are inconsistencies throughout and the saying that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing relates well to this investigation. Very frustrating!
97 posted on 08/25/2002 7:08:28 PM PDT by MistyCA
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To: lewislynn; COB1
it's possible it was remodeled or added on to in that time frame...

From looking at the floor plan, I would guess the house had been remodeled. The "den" shares a wall with the garage. Possibly the existing garage was turned into the den and a new garage was added.

COB1, thanks for the update. I, too, think often of Chief and pray for his family.

98 posted on 08/25/2002 7:10:13 PM PDT by dittomom
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To: WFTR
"kicking open that garage door would have been a natural thing for the firefighters to do in order to ventilate the house."

Of course!...............BUT:

This investigator was unable to determine if the door was forced by firefighters or was forced prior to the fire."[italics and bold mine]

Don't you think a simple question like, "Hey, guys, did you kick the door open", would have been a natural part of the investigation??!

99 posted on 08/25/2002 7:11:17 PM PDT by COB1
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To: sailor4321
Let me say two things here.....I really don't want to get back into heavy conversations about this investigation....but natural gas was never discussed as a potential source. Also, the diagram does not comport with the report re location of the body. Doesn't surprise me. There were tests conducted and the propellant used was gasoline as far as I can determine.....petroleum distillate. Disregard any notion of natural gas. :)
100 posted on 08/25/2002 7:12:19 PM PDT by MistyCA
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