Jesus Is Pro-Choice Says Priest

Parish Bulletin from Our Lady of Good Counsel, Plymouth Michigan ^ | August 4, 2002 | Fr. Doc Ortman

[happytobealive]

Well there's the problem then. Experience with these people has shown me that if they even own a Bible it only provides storage for clipped obituaries.

Your namesake didn't spend much time in either a Bible or a church.

[happytobealive]

When I was in 6th grade and your song came out, I hated the sound of it; but then I heard it on the radio a hundred times a day, and after a month I loved its sound -- go figure.

But I liked you right away.

[MissAmericanPie]

Thank you, I like your screen name, life is pretty good for the most part.

[Tublecane]

When you get down to the bare bones of his argument, this priest is advocating anarchy. Nothing more, nothing less.

All us "classical" liberals understand the basis of our organized society: we have certain God-given (or, if you don't believe in deities, "natural") rights, and governments are instituted among men to protect said rights. In other words, we give powers to a "legitimate" authority so that they can protect us from those who don't tend to follow our moral order. We give up our right to freely choose to do certain things (ie, murder, robbery, rape, etc. Anything that conflicts with the natural rights of others), and, in exchange, we get to feel comforted by the knowledge that we will be protected, at least part of the time, from the darker side of human nature.

This, as far as I can understand it, is what civilization is all about. Collectively deciding that we will punish (in whatever sense that word might mean) those who step out of our moral boundaries, for the benefit of us all.

We are free to argue endlessly over where the moral lines are drawn, how much power the "legitimate" authority has in comparison to the individual, what punishments will be carried out, etc. But we certainly all except that there is a need for us humans to control our own.

What this priest is saying, basically, is that there is no legitimate human authority. Only God can judge. We all have free will, and we are all free to use it as we choose. So, in essence, let anarchy reign. Everything goes!

Now, I'm sure this esteemed member of the Church doesn't really believe in anarchy. On the contrary, I'm sure he has a soft spot in his heart for the more subtle forms of Marxist/Leninist public policy (if you'll allow me to stereotype a bit). The point I'm trying to make is that, since I'm sure he's no anarchist, his position holds no water. All he's doing is stretching to find a theological explanation for not prohibiting the murder of children.

[xsmommy]

Thanks for the ping. this is an outrage. we attend a tridentine latin mass here in VA. We left our novus ordo parish because we never heard abortion mentioned from the pulpit. Now, we hear very strong, forthright sermons. When our current priest spoke about abortion, he said, the surveys that indicate that X% of Catholics believe in abortion, are incorrect. If you think abortion is OK, you are not CATHOLIC! so, i would suggest that this priest in this parish in Michigan only THINKS he is Catholic.

[Caipirabob]

Well, when it comes down to it, Jesus was an advocate of "Free Will". That being said, Jesus did not in any way advocate the slaughter of innocent children, only acknowledge you had the freedom to choose between heaven and hell.

My guess is someone perverted the words of the priest obviously to suit their own ends. Hey, Satan lies, that's not likely to change any time soon.

[Atlantian]

This makes me sick. Gaining political favor on the backs of dead babies.

[.45MAN]

Hopefully you are wrong......

[livius]

Ah, yes. The position of the local heirarchy. It's good to see that they're showing their usual courage in strongly defending Church doctrine and...oh, wait...

[Right To Life]

Some choices have to be stopped by society, bucko.

[marktwain]

Mea Culpa. Ohioan is correct. My post was not appropriate.

[grumpster-dumpster]

Thank you for keeping me on the "Ping" list.

I'm absolutely flabergasted by this article! ...I don't know where to start!

"Those who regard Ms. Granholm as a "heretic" do not understand, nor do they wish to understand, that choice in itself is a blessed gift. As with many other things this blessing can be used for evil rather than for blessing."

Well "Doc",
It appears to me you do not understand, nor do you wish to understand, that anyone who does not condemn the evil of abortion is an "enabelor" of the pro-abort cause... and therefore, IMHO, has "chosen" to put themselves before their faith... Just what we want in our politicians...NOT!

[Khepera]

We always need good people on the ping list. Thanks for hanging in there.

[The Mayor]

Oh boy. Here we go again. Exactly where did this occur, "Mr. Mayor"? (it would have made major breaking news in any diocese in this country if what you say had actually happened anywhere and we can all look it up in an instant if your're willing to back up your post.) But then, are you sure you're not just another famous FR anticatholic weirdo? Put your money where your mouth is darlin' or consider yourself the David Duke of FR.(An hold your breath waiting for an FR "moderator" to take away your bogus post.)

88 posted on 8/24/02 11:12 PM Eastern by leilani

Forgot to take your brain medicine again, eh? Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

91 posted on 8/24/02 11:28 PM Eastern by Antoninus

I'd like to read more about this. Will you please provide documentation? 96 posted on 8/24/02 11:55 PM Eastern by happytobealive

Number one I do not appreciate being called a liar..
Two, in the two years I have been a member of FR I have never jumped into a catholic bashing thread. I would never attack anyone because of their faith or thier affiliation with any particular church, doing so would be judging, I do not care to judge, Judge not and ye shall not be judged....

Beleive what you want, I personally don't care.
If you want to look it up, feel free..

This occured in Marlboro Massachusetts in 1974..
The church was the Immaculate Conception Roman Catholic Church.
The local newspapers are the Marlboro Enterprize and the South Middlesex Daily News..
I will not post my sisters or my nephews names in this forum..
If you want more info you may freep mail me in a civil manner, I will not respond to any attacks or threats..

If the moderator wanted to pull my post they should of done so. They probably didn't because I am not known in this forum to be anti catholic, or a liar.

[The Mayor]

!(The dead-giveaway that he fabricated the whole thing, like he always does).His silly schtick is getting so old on FR.

Can you prove this....?? When have I ever done this?

Like he always does..?? you have lost me completley.

[Jorge]

"I'm starting to wonder if there's a religious organization left on Earth which actually uses the Bible as its guide."

In a word, no. Religious organizations generally have little real life in them. They are institutions of men.

I've been to plenty of Churches that are vibrant and spiritually alive and depend on the Bible as the Word of God and their guide.
Maybe you've been looking the wrong places for fellowship.

[ArGee]

These people would have the state legislate the freedom that only God can give or take.

IIRC, G-d set up government to limit man's ability to commit acts of evil. G-d Himself even set up laws against committing evil.

It is true that individuals are still free. They can choose heaven and they can choose hell.

But they are never free to choose hell and insist that it be called heaven.

I think G-d is pretty clear on that point. And, IIRC, G-d is pretty harsh on Church leaders and teachers who make unclear what He has made clear.

Fr. Ortman may want to meditate on that fact.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Why are you suprised? The catholic church is filled with all sorts of rejects.

Mind if I make a minor correction?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Yeah. And maybe if these slimeball pseudo-priests can convince Catholics that it's OK to kill babies because it's convenient, it also might be OK for certain priests to commit brutally violent sexual assualts against children, too.

Maybe this pro-choice priest wouldn't mind if a congregation of Christ-loving, Bible-affirming Catholics exercised their choice to pick him up and toss him out of the building on his keister.

It's their choice, isn't it?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

and a runaway Attorney General.

As to that, it appears that the FBI excesses for which Aschroft was excoriated in the press last end of week were actually perpetrated under Janet el Reno.

Not that we should ever completely trust any A.G., but I think you've been reading the lamestream media a little too much.

Shalom.