Posted on 08/21/2002 4:16:24 PM PDT by ml/nj
Let me state up front: I wasn't in favor of the "Gulf War" then, and while many are talking about invading Iraq now I'm not in favor of that either. I could discuss that if anyone wants to.
But my question tonight is: What if we never went to war with Iraq? What if we just let Hussein take over Kuwait, and maybe move on to Saudi Arabia?
Would 9/11 have happened? If it would have happened anyway, would our position be stronger than it is now?
My guesses are No and Yes.
I guess No, there wouldn't have been a 9/11 attack upon the United States by Islamic Fundamentalists. Hussein strikes me as many things, but he doesn't strike me as more than conveniently Muslim. He was at war with Fundamentalist Iran, and if he moved on the Saudis, he would have been at war with Fundamentalist Saudi Arabia. Would these guys have had the luxury of turning their ire toward us? I doubt it.
But if they did, I think we would have been in a much stronger position. Either Hussein would be on our side helping to root these people out or he wouldn't. (I think he would have been.) If he would have been on our side, his people would have provided beaucoup informers and maybe even military support, but if not it would have been much easier politically to move against him now. And he would have largely been in control of Persian Gulf oil. We could have taken those oil fields from him alone with fewer naysayers in the Muslim world than we have now.
I haven't heard anyone else ask my what if question. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others.
ML/NJ
That was very thoughtful of you.
You know, that's a particularly $#!+y reply. That fact that I didn't want you to go "over there in '91," doesn't at all mean that I was rooting for us to lose once you got there. There's a very big difference between myself and Hanoi Jane.
ML/NJ
Saladin would have dropped to second place and the rest you really don't want to know about.
What the heck did you expect? What-if scenarios are not even debatable. You didn't pose a "what-if" anyway. You clumsily attempted to couch a personal opinion as a "what-if". History is rife with former allies ending up as foes. We welcomed the Soviets in ww2 and we even helped arm them. We destroyed both Japan and Germany and then re-built them. We have fought 2 wars against Great Britain and many more as their ally. There is no such thing as "friendship" between nations. There is only a convergance of national interests from time to time. 911 was only the canary in the coal mine. It was the first tangible warning that the poison we have been trying to contain with sanctions and diplomacy is no longer containable without force.
I mean, if they really want to go there.
Sorry Dude, just call me Joe Biden.
I do remember my SAT scores (yes, I make your threshold), but that was a long time ago. My GREs (ironically, I only remember 3 of the 4 scores) are much more relevant. :)
"Just consider it water under the bridge." -- Ted Kennedy
Who is the United States to determine whether or not one country can invade another? What, we're just like the FCC and hand out sovereignty licenses.
I can just imagine how the conversation went: "Sure Saddam, in fact, we wish you would take over Kuwait. I mean, with their hoity-toity attitude, they've just been pissing us off lately. You go show 'em what for."
There's a lot of ignorance here for such a short reply. Consider:
GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.We did say we were going to decide who could invade another and who could not. What, exactly, do you think the Gulf War was about?Source: http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html
ML/NJ
Kudos for that reply. You hit the nail on the head with a freaking suitcase nuke. While playing fantasies and what ifs may be fun sometimes, one musn't forget to occassionaly come back down from the clouds and inject a little reality into the equation. Not only has this mustachioed obscenity shown a desire for big toys, he's shown a tendency to use them. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that were it not for the constraints of our coalition and the U.N. directive, Highway 6 would have only been the beginning, not the end. Instead of this lukewarm conflict that has been going on ad nauseum, we could have been 10 years along in the restructuring of Iraqi society.
Vacillation now spells doom later. Instead of worrying about what was, worry about what awaits.(That's not directed at you Bill, that's for the other goofballs that wanna think too much.)
Is this the statement which is supposed to confer our permission to invade Kuwait?
But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.
Gee, I'm sorry the diplomat didn't spell out that they think that taking over another country is off the table.
This is "Iraq asking" and the "US saying it's OK" to invade? Right.
Must ... refrain ... from ... making ... reference ... to ... SEGUET's ... mother. Joke ... too ... obvious.
The most vigorous thing April Glaspie COULD have said is that the United States would regard invading Kuwait as an "unfriendly act."
If that phrase had been trotted out, though, it would have been saying "Do this, and you will be at war with the USA." You do not throw that phrase around lightly.
You forgot one.... Clinton the Defiler, and his lovely wife, Hilldebeast of Phat-Leggs.(make that two... public school math, what can I say?)
Just to put this in the simplest terms, it's like telling your brother-in-law that you're not going to get involved in his marriage. Then he claims that that was telling him that he has your permission to beat your sister.
Some behavior is off limits, no matter what.
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