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What if ... We Never Went to War With Iraq?
Posted on 08/21/2002 4:16:24 PM PDT by ml/nj
Let me state up front: I wasn't in favor of the "Gulf War" then, and while many are talking about invading Iraq now I'm not in favor of that either. I could discuss that if anyone wants to.
But my question tonight is: What if we never went to war with Iraq? What if we just let Hussein take over Kuwait, and maybe move on to Saudi Arabia?
Would 9/11 have happened? If it would have happened anyway, would our position be stronger than it is now?
My guesses are No and Yes.
I guess No, there wouldn't have been a 9/11 attack upon the United States by Islamic Fundamentalists. Hussein strikes me as many things, but he doesn't strike me as more than conveniently Muslim. He was at war with Fundamentalist Iran, and if he moved on the Saudis, he would have been at war with Fundamentalist Saudi Arabia. Would these guys have had the luxury of turning their ire toward us? I doubt it.
But if they did, I think we would have been in a much stronger position. Either Hussein would be on our side helping to root these people out or he wouldn't. (I think he would have been.) If he would have been on our side, his people would have provided beaucoup informers and maybe even military support, but if not it would have been much easier politically to move against him now. And he would have largely been in control of Persian Gulf oil. We could have taken those oil fields from him alone with fewer naysayers in the Muslim world than we have now.
I haven't heard anyone else ask my what if question. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others.
ML/NJ
TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 01nukem; 02tilltheyglow; 03andthen; 04shootem; 05inthedark
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To: AmishDude
"I love it when the bait gets bitten."
It's a b**ch when they throw the hook - you go Dude.
61
posted on
08/21/2002 5:35:30 PM PDT
by
SEGUET
To: SEGUET
Lybia got balistics with chemical warheads from Iran today - so Sadam is just going to have to wait his turn.Would you be talking about "Libya" and "Saddam". It's always nice to get cutting-edge, detail-free news full of misspellings.
To: BlackVeil
...but the nation is stronger without such drains.
And ultimately safer.
Regards
J.R.
63
posted on
08/21/2002 5:40:01 PM PDT
by
NMC EXP
To: Eternal_Bear
At least Neville Chamberlain had the cajones to declare war on the nazis first. Fat Congas® Cajones are adaptations of the traditional Cuban, and Peruvian cajones. Our cajones are constructed of the highest quality Birch plywood.
Cojones.
64
posted on
08/21/2002 5:41:20 PM PDT
by
decimon
To: SEGUET
It's a b**ch when they throw the hook - you go Dude.I wouldn't know.
To: AmishDude
"I wouldn't know"
You forgot to finish that sentence Dude -
"anything." was the final word.
Hook up old Dobbin, get in the Buggy and stay on the right side of the highway as you ride off into the sunset. (Oh - light the kerosene headlights and put on your seat belt.)
66
posted on
08/21/2002 5:50:59 PM PDT
by
SEGUET
To: decimon
"At least Neville Chamberlain had the cajones to declare war on the nazis first."
Well, I didn't know that - Neville did have cajones - huh -how about that - Birch Plywood cajones.
67
posted on
08/21/2002 5:55:05 PM PDT
by
SEGUET
To: Arkinsaw
What if a moose bit your sister? A tres intelligent response. How can I ever thank you?
ML/NJ
68
posted on
08/21/2002 5:56:13 PM PDT
by
ml/nj
To: SEGUET
light the kerosene headlightsWell, this has deteriorated. Tell ya what, light your own. And make sure you use a big open flame.
To: SEGUET
Well, I didn't know that - Neville did have cajones - huh -how about that - Birch Plywood cajones.But I'll bet they weren't "Fat Congas."
70
posted on
08/21/2002 5:59:55 PM PDT
by
decimon
To: ml/nj
A tres intelligent response. How can I ever thank you?
That's easy.....just keep posting faskinatin' gems like this one and thats thanks enuff.
71
posted on
08/21/2002 6:02:55 PM PDT
by
Arkinsaw
To: All
Right. Let's allow someone who doesn't care if the world blows up get his finger on the button. At least the Soviets and the Chi-Coms care if they live or die.
72
posted on
08/21/2002 6:03:05 PM PDT
by
Inkie
To: ml/nj
Damned interesting questions. Many thanks for the post.
When Saddam complained about Kuwait's slant-drilling in the border territory Iraq considered to be rightfully their own, and asserted that he may have to take action, April Glaspie replied "The U.S. is not concerned with Iraq's internal disputes".
Is that a "YES"? I'd say so.
Saddam had been our pal and perhaps largest customer for weaponry, including anthrax (whose brilliant idea that was, I don't know)all during the tenure of VP and then President GHW Bush.
Iraq uses all those wonderful weapons we sold him to invade Kuwait, and lo and behold, after a week or so of wimpish dithering, Maggie Thatcher comes over, sticks a rod up GHWB's ..um.. spine, and out comes the memorable phrase "This will not stand".
I'll bet Saddam was aghast, muttering "what the ****?
A very interesting question about the nature and focus of radical islamic terrorist actions had the Western powers not reacted to Kuwaiti pleas and Saudi/Israeli pressure. It may well have been that Saddam's regime would have become the primary focus of terrorist acts and we may well have come to his aid, thus initiating the "War on Terror" up to 10 years ago.
Ain't history wonderful?
73
posted on
08/21/2002 6:03:47 PM PDT
by
muleboy
To: crypt2k
Within one week of 9/11/2001 Tehran and Baghdad should have been leveled. This isn't far from what I suggested then. I would have included Medina too.
But now, it's too late. Our grate [stet] Foreign Policy team has been dicking around, arguing among themselves, for so long that whatever military action we would take now would cause us to be viewed as the aggressor.
ML/NJ
74
posted on
08/21/2002 6:05:39 PM PDT
by
ml/nj
To: ml/nj
Saddam Hussein's goal, one for which it was quite right to stop him in 1991, went a lot further than Kuwait.
His goal was to make Iraq the core state of the Islamic world, to fulfil the historical role that had been vacant since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Iraq had an enormous army, massive oil wealth, and an educated, modern population. Given control of half the world's oil it would become the world's fourth power.
Questions presuming rationality on the part of Saddam Hussein miss two vital facts.
1. The man is a megalomaniac.
2. To legitamize his role as center of the Islamic world, he MUST take on it's "enemies". Israel and the United States. By confronting them he would proclaim that HE speaks for the Arab world. So of course he sent missiles against Israel as a statement of his Arab leadership.
There is another factor which I am surprised no one else saw. Family relations between Saddam Hussein and the Jordanian royal family were close. What if there had been a dynastic marriage ? From the Iraqi side would have come the most powerful nation in the Arab world. From the Jordanian side would have come kinship with the Prophet Mohammed and a legitimate dynastic claim to be Guardian of the Holy Places of Mecca and Medina. Add it all together and we have the restoration of the Caliphate in Baghdad. Every Arab knows the date 1258, the year of unspeakable catastrophe when Hulagu Khan's Mongols sacked Baghdad and killed the last Abbasid caliph. For a culture obsessed with romantic images of ancient glory, restoring the caliphate in Baghdad would be one hell of a statement that Iraq is now the center of the Muslim world.
To: muleboy
Ain't history wonderful?Rewrites even more so!
To: Poohbah
What if somebody mentioned cheese? Thanks for the really intelligent reply.
ML/NJ
77
posted on
08/21/2002 6:06:56 PM PDT
by
ml/nj
To: AmishDude
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things ... And, you, I assume are the personification of intelligence.
Did you ever take the SATs? Did you take them before they dumbed down the scoring levels?
Did you ever get a score that was reported with only closed curves?
I'm guessing, No.
ML/NJ
78
posted on
08/21/2002 6:11:52 PM PDT
by
ml/nj
To: ml/nj
And, you, I assume are the personification of intelligence.Oh, man.
Did you ever take the SATs?
You don't want to go there.
Did you ever get a score that was reported with only closed curves?
OK, do me a favor. Go to my profile page. Scroll down. Click on the link with the letters "AMS" and report back when you figure out what it stands for.
Oh man.
To: ml/nj
I've often wondered why no discussion of a new idea around here around here is never complete without multiple references to Hitler. Do people actually think that just by bringing up the name Hitler they've delivered such a devastating blow to their opponent that he has nothing left to say? If people insist on reasoning by analogy couldn't they add a few more names to the pitching rotation like Atilla the Hun? Blue Duck? Vlad the Impaler?
80
posted on
08/21/2002 6:16:43 PM PDT
by
DentsRun
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