Details of shootout emerge (Massillon, OHIO)

The Canton Repository (OHIO) ^ | Sunday, August 11, 2002 | LORI MONSEWICZ

[Jack Black]

18 posted on 8/11/02 7:20 AM Pacific by RGSpincich
You wrote to Dirtboy:

That's something you made up. The stories never mention a .32.

But the story does say: Czechoslovakian CZ-762x25. CZ is a manufacturer. The gun in question is a military surplus item in the sense that it was made in Czechoslovkia during the Communist era. All weapons were made for the combined military/police. 7.62x25 is clearly identified as the caliber of this weapon, though the editor was too ignorant of guns to correctly place the decimal place. In European calibers the first number is the diameter of the bullet in millimeters. The second is the length of the case. In the USA we refer to calibers, most commonly, by their diameter in decimal fraction of an inch. Thus a "Colt .45" shoots a large bullet of almost 1/2" inch (.45) diameter. Using metric to inch conversion ratios will show you that the caliber of a 7.62 bullet expressed in more common US terminology is .3048, or "30 caliber". Dirtboy called it a .32 caliber, but it's not unusual for bullets size to be rounded off somewhat. For instance the common .38 Special is actually .357 caliber. The .44 Magnum is actuall .429. I'm not totally familiar with obscure Czech calibers but it is very possible this caliber is routinely referred to as a ".32" by US users, probably based on it's similiarity to other US calibers like the "32 ACP".

Dirtboy did not make anything up.

[RGSpincich]

Yeah, I took care of it. Thanks.

[Twodees]

Dirtboy did not make anything up

True enough, but the newstwit who originally wrote it up got it wrong. 7.62 is .30 cal.

[Sandy]

It became clear to the trooper that something was terribly amiss when he walked toward the car and noticed Matthews pulling a large gun from under the car seat. Hershey backed away and returned to his cruiser.

I don't get this. Why didn't Hershey just shoot Matthews as soon as Matthews went for the gun? Did he figure that Matthews was about to get out the vehicle with the weapon, or what? Maybe some of our freeper LEOs can explain this to me.

[tet68]

His Bulletproof Vest didn't save him because he was either shot in the head or a vital area not covered by the Vest!

Not so, the 7.62X25 is one of the rounds that will go right through a vest. As my friend the chief of police keeps reminding me. The hyperbole in this article is none the less over the top.

[tet68]

[tet68]

Keep in mind that the SKS used 7.62X39 ammunition.
so quite a lot of power in that pistol round.

[Travis McGee]

It's a hot little round, no doubt.

The choice of this archaic round which is very lacking in "stopping power" compared to most modern rounds (9mm, .357, .40, .45 etc) brings up the possiblity that it was chosen for its one standout feature: it's ability to penetrate kevlar.

I bring this up because Matthews' state of mind and possible paranoia have been discussed on other threads.

I don't know one way or the other, but his choice of a kevlar penetrating pistol caliber does enter into the discussion.

[Texasforever]

I hear the same old BS every time... Militia? Right Wing Thug? ..

? Yep and many are using the same BS here. Gubiment conspiracy, cover-up, innocent "patriot". Why not, just one time, admit that there are nut cases out there from all political persuasions? The guy snapped, the guy killed a young cop the guy is not a martyr.

[Texasforever]

Really, he snapped? How do you know what happened? Are you a seer. How's Eli Lilly look? Do you recommend a buy?

Ok, he coolly decided that he was going to go out for a drive and kill a cop. That is probably closer to the truth but I was trying to give the idiot the benefit of the doubt.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

City police, area troopers and investigators from Columbus announced that they were trying to determine whether Matthews, whom friends described as a staunch constitutionalist, had ties to the Ohio Militia.

Is this code for something??

[Vinnie]

Is this the same as a .30 Mauser?

[Eaker]

humble,

Please post a picture of the 7.62x39 that we were shooting through your SKS last weekend. It didn't look like this to me, but I could be wrong.

Thanks,
Eaker

[Shooter 2.5]

Why did you bring up the SKS?
7.62 X 25 Tokarev is similar to the .30 Mauser and most brands of Mauser cartridges can be fired in the Tokarev pistols. Source, Cartridges of the World.

[Shooter 2.5]

7.62 X 25 Russian Tokarev is the pistol round for the Torkarev and the CZ's.
7.62 X 39 is the rifle round for the AK's and SKS's.

[Crowcreek]

"It [CZ 52} was designed for a new cartridge known as the7.62 M48. It was similar to the Soviet cartridge, but loaded to a higher velocity."

(Ned Schwing's Standard Catalog of Firearms -- The Collector's Price and Reference Guide)

[Crowcreek]

Lots of good information about the CZ 52 can be found at makarov.com

[Crowcreek]

I just can't buy into that -- If the guy had used a 30/30 rifle, the gun cranks would all be laughing up their sleeves at the guy, like 'what a hayseed!'; and you know the 30/30 is probably five times harder to stop . . .

He carried a reasonably priced (ok - cheap) and formidable weapon, in the same class as the common .357, and not any more sinister because of it's background, color, political affiliation, etc.