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IS THIS A PERSON?
8/5/02 | jwalsh07

Posted on 08/05/2002 5:30:51 PM PDT by jwalsh07

AMENDMENT 14
SECTION 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

GE 4D Image Of a Baby



TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionismean; baby; catholiclist; constitution; halliburton; life; prolife; righttolife; unborn
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To: jwalsh07
fetus = little child
121 posted on 08/05/2002 7:03:59 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Bowana
:)
122 posted on 08/05/2002 7:04:25 PM PDT by lsee
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To: Bowana
Yes, but as long as the fetus is physically connected to the mother, it is not a person.

Why not?

123 posted on 08/05/2002 7:05:54 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: All
Well I HATE ABORTION and I AM PRO-LIFE, but I believe in a woman's right to chose.

Good night.

124 posted on 08/05/2002 7:06:09 PM PDT by Bowana
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To: Bowana
>>...No "we" can't, I see a fetus...<<

And that fetus has unique DNA. Different from it's mother. It is NOT the mother's tissue any longer.

It is an individual.

125 posted on 08/05/2002 7:06:53 PM PDT by FReepaholic
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To: jwalsh07
So much effort going into defining "person"/ personhood/ individual... this child in its mother's womb
What would God care in our legalistic definitions?

He cares only that we see it as a miracle, a gift.

126 posted on 08/05/2002 7:07:41 PM PDT by jdogbearhunter
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To: Sungirl
No, I do not know the address for which you ask.
127 posted on 08/05/2002 7:11:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: jwalsh07
Done with it?

Care to expound on that?

No! Given the question, it's grammatically correct. There is no judgement in the statment.

(Honestly, I've seen pictures of simian fetuses that look an awful lot like the one in the article, so who knows?)

Hank

128 posted on 08/05/2002 7:11:29 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Jolly Rodgers
In fact, the life belongs to the child.

Nothing belongs to anyone who cannot be responsible for it. If a life depends on me, it is mine, just as my life depends on God, so it is His. You may not agree with this principle, but it is the truth.

Hank

129 posted on 08/05/2002 7:15:41 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: jwalsh07
Glad you had a 3 year old to help out with this! They are so sharp, I tell 'ya! :)
130 posted on 08/05/2002 7:15:48 PM PDT by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL
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To: MHGinTN
Hankster, are you aware that scientists have now proven that the fetus is able to learn in utero?,p> My cat and dog learn too. Does that make them people?

Personally, almost anything can be "proved" by scientists today, that's why so many people are taken in by quacks.

Hank

131 posted on 08/05/2002 7:18:30 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Bowana
Well I HATE ABORTION and I AM PRO-LIFE, but I believe in a woman's right to chose.

OK, you got possibilities, I'll put you down as a maybe. You sure you're not a politician? :-}

132 posted on 08/05/2002 7:19:21 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: All
Gotta run. Thanks.
133 posted on 08/05/2002 7:19:54 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Hank Kerchief
Nothing belongs to anyone who cannot be responsible for it. If a life depends on me, it is mine, just as my life depends on God, so it is His. You may not agree with this principle, but it is the truth.

Let me understand this clearly now:

You are using your belief in god to justify murder of an innocent child?!?

That must be some god you worship.

134 posted on 08/05/2002 7:25:14 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: jwalsh07
Your question is beside the point. The Constitution simply says that no State should take away life, liberty, or property. It does not mention private actors. Murder laws and such are properly in the domain of the State governments.
135 posted on 08/05/2002 7:27:25 PM PDT by billybudd
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To: jwalsh07
But "person" is not defined in the 14th Ammendment or anywhere else in our Constitution. The definition is left open from a legal or constitutional standpoint. Therein lies the problem.

Currently the word "born" is being used to loosely define both "citizen" and "person" (at least as far as I understand things).

It think you make a good point that non-citizens are granted more rights than unborn humanoid entities residing within our borders. The problem, once again, comes down to the our country's aversion to legally defining "personhood". This is something we have failed to do for 226 years.
136 posted on 08/05/2002 7:27:57 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: tscislaw
EXCELLENT LINE OF THOUGHT!!!

Just want others to read what you just said, as imo, THAT's IT!!! It's ALL in the DNA!!!!!! Very smart of you!!! And God bless you!!!!!!

...........Is this baby a person?... At the INSTANT the baby's DNA becomes different than the mothers', it is an unique individual and should be afforded equal protection under the law. I don't understand why pro-life groups/attorneys don't persue the DNA angle instead of the "moment of life" one. I don't believe we will EVER determine the point at which a baby becomed "alive". DNA determination is completely scientific and not at the whim of different beliefs and religions.

137 posted on 08/05/2002 7:29:22 PM PDT by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL
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To: valkyrieanne
Because he can't assert his rights (whether he is an unborn child, or a helpless newborn infant, or for that matter an adult person with handicaps so severe that he can neither think, move, or speak) it is *incumbent* upon others to assert his rights for him.

The word "rights" is very bad, but, if we must use it, there can only be a right to do, not a right to have, because a right to have implies someone else is obligated to provide whatever it is one has a right to have.

No "right" can require the violation of a "right." If there is a right to life, it means one has a right to live their life as best they can without the forceful interference of any other individual. The moment you prevent one human being from living as they choose by force, you deny the right to life.

If you claim anyone has a right to force someone else to provide for their life, you have denied the right of life, particularly to the one you will force to provide for another. If the right to life is denied, there is not grounds for saying a baby has a right to life.

Hank

138 posted on 08/05/2002 7:32:05 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: jwalsh07
Your position is that of the Constitution Party (http://www.constitutionparty.com)

A broad intepretation of the ammendment would mean that the Federal government has an obligation RIGHT NOW to shut down the abortion mills.

All pro-aborts on this thread who are arguing against your interpretation of the ammendment are arguing that it should be interpreted NARROWLY, not broadly. The answer to that is that if we are to interpret the Constitution narrowly then Roe v. Wade should be overturned, for it constructed a VERY elaborate interpretation.

They can't have it both ways. Either the Feds have an obligation to protect the right of the unborn (broad interpretation of the Constitution) or Roe v. Wade should be overturned (narrow interpretation). Take your pick..

139 posted on 08/05/2002 7:32:32 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: Lorianne
There was no need to define the term person in terms of the unborn when drafting the Constitution because at that time abortion was illegal in all States. As used in the Constitution, person merely means citizens and non citizens.
140 posted on 08/05/2002 7:33:44 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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