Avondale dumps Glocks; tendency to jam

The Arizona Republic ^ | 29 July 2002 | Marty Sauerzopf

[45Auto]

Despite rave reviews from other Valley law enforcement agencies, the Avondale Police Department is dumping its arsenal of Glock handguns, saying they are prone to jams that could jeopardize officers or the public.

"It's a significant problem," Police Chief Stephen MacKinnon said. "It was a safety issue for the public."

Most of the department's .40-caliber semiautomatic Glock pistols were purchased 12 years ago. The department's firearms experts have determined the slides that eject spent shell casings have become worn and may not work properly. If they malfunction, the shell will not eject properly and will create a jam when a live round advances into the firing chamber.

MacKinnon said that during a recent training exercise, about half of the dozen or so weapons being used malfunctioned.

Avondale will spend more than $55,000 to purchase 95 Sig Arms P-220 .45-caliber semiautomatics.

Glock officials did not return phone calls asking for comment.

Most other Valley police agencies said their officers carry Glocks, and reported no difficulties or concerns.

"We are very happy and satisfied with the performance of the Glocks we have," said Scottsdale police spokesman Officer Scott Reed. "Any misfires we have on the range normally are attributed to bad ammunition or improper care."

Other department officials said they were surprised to hear of Avondale's decision.

"I have not heard of a problem like that," Phoenix police Sgt. Tony Morales said.

[45Auto]

I think the chief just wants a new Sig. at taxpayer's expense.

[krb]

Wow...I've never had a jam in my Glock.

[donh]

My friends I shoot with all have glocks, & I have
two glock 40s I purchased about 9 years ago, I think,
we all mistreat and neglect them shamefully, and they
never, ever have problems, including the one I ran
over with a jeep. Sounds like a consistent mis-repair
to me.

[lelio]

Most of the department's .40-caliber semiautomatic Glock pistols were purchased 12 years ago. The department's firearms experts have determined the slides that eject spent shell casings have become worn and may not work properly.
geez, a twelve year old gun has some wear on it? Whodda thunk it? Has anyone worked on these guns in that 12 year timespan?

[Joe Brower]

[matrix]

Man! The Glock .40's were 12 years old! There were doubtless many thousands of rounds fired. No wonder they jamed occasionally.

The Sig. .45 is a fine gun, but probably won't last much longer than the Glocks did.

I like the .45 idea, though. It saves on all that extra effort beating a perp while he's still alive! /sarcasm

[Redcloak]

From what I've read, most Glock problems are traceable to faulty maintainance or bad ammo; "Bad" usually meaning too hot. Some police like to use hotter loads which has caused problems with older Glocks. Newer guns, however, have re-designed parts that resist damage from hot loads. If it's a maintainance problem that's plaguing them, switching guns won't make the problem go away. At best, it'll push it off for the time it takes to go through a few boxes of ammo.

The only jams I've ever had with my G19 have been from "limp wristing" the gun. It's so easy to shoot that I sometimes don't get a nice solid grip on it.

[uncbob]

?Most of the department's .40-caliber semiautomatic Glock pistols were purchased 12 years ago

I don't think the 40 S&W was around 12 years ago

[dd5339]

"Most of the department's .40-caliber semiautomatic Glock pistols were purchased 12 years ago. The department's firearms experts have determined the slides that eject spent shell casings have become worn and may not work properly."

Even the best designed of firearms, 1911 A-1's will wear out over time. The 45's that I was issued in the Marine Corps, (83-87) were so worn and shot out that they were known to literally fall apart while being fired on the range. Of course these 45's were of WWII manufacture or older. It wasn't until I shot a new 45 several years later that I decided it was a great design and great pistol.

I can't fault their choice of replacements though. My wife and I have a pair of Sig 226's in 9mm. They were police trade-ins when we bought them. In the 3 years we've had them we've put close to 30K rounds through them. All we've replaced have been magazine springs.

Semper Fi!

[xsrdx]

Good bet those malfunctioning guns were in sorry shape - it takes some work (and some parts!) to keep guns running for 12 years when they're shot frequently.

NYPD supposedly has problems with G19's and "Phase 3" failures, but it's difficult to substantiate the cause or even if it's a real problem.

Glocks are used by about 60% of LEA's nationwide, but I think most replace them every few billion rounds or so - as they would any other firearm.

[TC Rider]

I don't think the 40 S&W was around 12 years ago

I checked, the 22 and 23 were released in America in 1990.

Still, something doesn't seem right here. I've pumped 2000 through mine in the last year and had one failure to fire, and that was bad ammo. I doubt most cops spend that much time at the range.

It pretty well documented that glocks can cycle 200,000 - 300,000 rounds without breaking a sweat.

From the description it sounds more like an extractor issue than a slide problem.

I think the guy just wants the Sig. (A nice weapon, just wonder how the good taxpayers feel about that.)

BTW, Chief, got any plans for a garage sale for those Glock .40s with pre-ban magazines

[toddst]

The Sig. .45 is a fine gun, but probably won't last much longer than the Glocks did.

I have two Sig P-220's, both are fired heavily. Even with my tendency to let the guns get too dirty with residue and not lubricating them much both continue to run flawlessly.

A friend, ex-seal, ran 20,000 rounds per month through his Sig P-220 for over a year - no problems, no repairs other than spring replacement. Unless this department is using super-hot ammo constantly at a very high volume I believe their Sigs will far outlast the Glocks.

[Billthedrill]

Police sidearms seldom fail due to overuse - I'm thinking we have a maintenance issue here. The article's summary, that "worn slides" are causing ejection failures, doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. This particular model (they're almost certainly talking about the model 22, the full-size .40 S&W Glock) does not have a history of such failures. Mine has never jammed once - I've only had it for three years, but I shoot a lot more than most police officers.

Well, the SIG's a fine piece and .45 ACP is a good caliber, true enough...

[maximus@Nashville]

BTW, Chief, got any plans for a garage sale for those Glock .40s with pre-ban magazines?

Anyone want to bet the Chief has a brother-in-law that is a gun dealer?

[Space Wrangler]

Nor have I. Ever. I own two Glock's, and so does my Dad, and several friends that I shoot with have Glocks as well. Never have I or anyone else ever had a Glock jam. These cops need to take a look at the ammo they're trying to run through them. Of course it may just be that the Chief wants a new Sig, which I can't say that I blame him ;>))

[rellimpank]

--slides that eject spent shell casings have become worn--having just looked at two of my Glocks to check, I have concluded that the "armorer" either was misquoted or doesn't know what an "ejector" is and is incompetent--

[11Bush]

Your friend puts 250,000 rounds a year through his Sig? Sounds a little bit high. Hell, he would have to live at the range and have his ammo delivered by gamma-goat.

Molon Labe!

[5Madman2]

This Chief wants a SIG. The Ejector assembly and the extractor can be replaced by a Glock Armorer in a few minutes for less than 20.00 per gun (Probably less, but I don't have my manual/partsprice list handy). Glocks require annual inspection and internal cleaning by a Glock armorer. Annual inspections would have pointed this out and the parts could have been replaced. It would have cost this Chief 85.00 to get one of his officers Glock Certified as an Armorer. This Chief is screwing the taxpayers big time because he wants a sexier pistol. He has been negligent with his officers safety by not having an active inspection/repair program, and now he drums up a bunch of crap so he can get a sexier gun.

Don't get me wrong-SIGS are great guns, but this idiot shouldn't screw people over to get new toys

[cinFLA]

The only jams I've ever had with my G19 have been from "limp wristing" the gun. It's so easy to shoot that I sometimes don't get a nice solid grip on it.

Big problem with female cops. Some departments are going back to revolvers because of this.

[Tijeras_Slim]

I had a reconditioned model 17 that had seen quite a bit of firing. The lower inner edges of the slide near the ejection port showed some wear and "burrs". After about 200 rounds of ok ammo (PMC) it would have feed problems. About 2 minutes with a hard stone dressing the worn area solved the problem completely.