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"Sniper Rifles" -- Fact or Fiction?
Self ^ | Right Now | DGallandro

Posted on 07/30/2002 8:53:44 PM PDT by DGallandro

From the fictional "Assault Weapon," to the new boogey-gun: The "Sniper Rifle".

First, the Media made up the term "Assault Weapon" to scare the public into thinking a rifle with a flash-suppressor or bayonet lug was somehow "evil". Now, their professional spin-doctors are calling the .50 caliber bolt-action silhouette rifles "Sniper Rifles". And your congresscritters are trying to classify them in the same category as a machine gun.

Your congresscritters are at it again, but don't take MY word for it. If you're like me, a thinking Freeper, people love coming up to you with "Hey, have you heard about the new bill in congress...? They're gonna ban food-cacheing under Martial Law, and anyone caught hoarding more than 3 weeks worth of food can face charges of treason, punishable by DEATH!" -- This really happened earlier today to me. They cited H.R. 41 as their proof and then went on their merry way. Folks, H.R. 41 is a TAX BILL and has nothing to do with that ridiculous quote. But people think of guys like me as a bunch of tinfoil-hat conspiracy nuts, so they play games like that to ruin our credibility. And for those of us without access to the Library of Congress to look things up, it's effective. That's how I found out about the tax bill.

In my experience, I have learned that when bouts of disinformation go out, it's for a reason. The last time people were spouting this kind of hooey was around 1994, so that when the Assault Weapons ban went through, people were too busy chasing shadow legislation that when the real warnings came out that the excrement was about to strike the rotary oscillator, there was so much trash out there nobody was able to pay attention long enough to prevent the most Odious Legislation in History from passing. So I immediately, armed with the idea that the disinformation HAD to be covering up for something, started digging in my favorite area: Gun Control.

Folks, THIS is what they're trying to pass while they tell you all about Martial Law and other stupidities:

HR 3182 IH

107th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 3182 To regulate certain 50 caliber sniper weapons in the same manner as machine guns and other firearms.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

October 30, 2001 Mr. BLAGOJEVICH (for himself and Mr. WAXMAN) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL To regulate certain 50 caliber sniper weapons in the same manner as machine guns and other firearms.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Trooper Timothy Mossbruker Memorial Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

The Congress finds that--

(1) certain firearms originally designed and built for use as long-range 50 caliber military sniper weapons are increasingly sold in the domestic civilian market, and there are fewer legal restrictions on their possession or transfer than there are on handguns;

(2) the intended use of these long-range firearms, and an increasing number of models derived directly from them, is the taking of human life and the destruction of materiel, including armored vehicles and such components of the national critical infrastructure as radars and microwave transmission devices;

(3) these firearms are neither designed nor used in any significant number for legitimate sporting or hunting purposes and are clearly distinguishable from rifles intended for sporting and hunting use;

(4) extraordinarily destructive ammunition for these weapons, including armor-piercing and armor-piercing incendiary ammunition, is freely sold in interstate commerce; and

(5) the virtually unrestricted availability of these firearms and ammunition, given the uses intended in their design and manufacture, present a serious and substantial threat to the national security.

SEC. 3. COVERAGE OF 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPONS UNDER NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT.

(a) IN GENERAL- Subsection (a) of section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (defining firearm) is amended by striking `(6) a machine gun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device.' and inserting `(6) a 50 caliber sniper weapon; (7) a machine gun; (8) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (9) a destructive device.'

(b) 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPON-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 5845 of such Code is amended by redesignating subsections (d) through (m) as subsections (e) through (n), respectively, and by inserting after subsection (c) the following new subsection:

`(d) 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPON- The term `50 caliber sniper weapon' means a rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in 50 caliber, .50 BMG caliber, any other variant of 50 caliber, or any metric equivalent of such calibers.'

(2) MODIFICATION TO DEFINITION OF RIFLE- Subsection (c) of section 5845 of such Code is amended by inserting `or from a bipod or other support' after `shoulder'.

(c) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendments made by this section shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act.

SEC. 4. COVERAGE OF 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPONS UNDER THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968.

(a) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(z)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a 50 caliber sniper weapon.

`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply with respect to--

`(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

`(B) any otherwise lawful transfer or otherwise lawful possession of a 50 caliber sniper weapon that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.'.

(b) 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPON DEFINED- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(35) The term `50 caliber sniper weapon' has the meaning given such term in section 5845(d) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(d)).'.

(c) PENALTIES- Section 924(a)(2) of such title is amended by striking `or (o)' and inserting `(o), or (z)'.

====

That's it. Timothy Mossbrucker was a State Trooper killed by a perp with a .50 caliber rifle. Therefore, all .50 caliber rifles must be banned because people kill state troopers with them. Back to the whole "equipment" thing. The sad fact is that police officers are killed with a lot of things, from automobiles, to knives to guns of every kind. Why suddenly pick on "Sniper Rifles?" Believe you me, it is neither sudden nor surprising for those of us who are paying attention. "Assault Weapons" were the first step. "Sniper Rifles" are the next. Right now, the shooting community is still in debate as to what they're going after if they pass this stinker.

My point is, a few VERY WELL PUBLICIZED incidents made "Assault Weapons" too inherently evil for anyone except Law Enforcement and the Military (which does not, never has, and never will own, use, or deploy anything classified as an "assault weapon" EVER)to use, and anyone wanting to own one must be some kind of crazed psychopath. This scare tactic effectively frightened the public enough into thinking such equipment was inherently dangerous and could kill people all by itself, jumping up out of a gun rack and just taking out a school somewhere. It was trumped-up media hype.

But it was enough and now they're banned. Only now we find out that "Assault Weapons" were used in a STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT number of crimes, when compared with the tools used in other heinous acts...sounds like "Lying With Statistics" to me.

Way back then in 1994, we shooters speculated as to what would come next. We came to the conclusion, by ourselves, in 1995, that it would be big-bore distance shooters, because next to "assault weapons" (which are really rifles that look "cool", nothing more), the next-smallest taste in firearms belonged to big-bore distance shooters. There are a few reasons for that:

  1. Big Bore shooting is EXPENSIVE. A .50 caliber rifle STARTS at around 1200 dollars and can work its way up into the multiples of thousands.
  2. Ammunition is EXPENSIVE. Good deals and sales notwithstanding, ammunition for a .50 caliber rifle is upwards from 2 and a half dollars PER SHOT.
  3. The sights required to take full advantage of the rifle's accuracy potential at distance are VERY EXPENSIVE (How does 2300 dollars for a piece of tubing with glass in it sound?)
  4. Big-Bore shooting is, alas, as it sounds, a big BORE. It takes a very special kind of person to be that patient. I am not one of them. In this day and age of attention spans measured in milliseconds, there aren't many.

Do I honestly believe that someone who has the kind of money to buy something that costs as much as a timeshare, using ammo that costs more than a beer per shot, whose very special hobby is to be patient enough to hit steel silhouettes dead center at a thousand yards five times before calling it a day, is going to suddenly up and start killing people?

I don't think so. You do NOT see bad guys lining up a the LAR factory, or writing to Barrett for their latest catalog. Think for a moment, these guns aren't banned yet...they're widely available...HOW COME THE BAD GUYS AREN'T BUYING THEM IN DROVES, if they're so dangerous?

I see a dangerous parallel here. With "Assault Weapons," the media deliberately obscured identification of the firearms in question, promoting confusion between MACHINE GUNS and RIFLES. By Definition, an Assault Rifle is a Rifle with Selective Fire (Read as both single shot and fully automatic) in a caliber smaller than that of a full battle rifle. The first Assault Rifle was the German Sturmgwehr MP44, which used a special, SMALLER version of the 8mm Mauser BATTLE RIFLE CARTRIDGE. The Assault Rifle was designed as a compromise between the battle rifle and the submachine gun. In order for a rifle to be an assault rifle, it must be SELECTIVE FIRE, that is, a MACHINE GUN. As such, REAL Assault Rifles have been heavily regulated into near-extinction (except for the movie prop companies, who own a very large percentage of them because "action" movies are so popular) to the point where even ex-soldiers cannot buy them, so traditionally, they bought the legal, single-shot-only versions (also known as semi-auto).

Enter Handgun Control Inc. By Deliberately lumping the AR15 and the M16 together (because they LOOK exactly the same), they managed to convince a chunk of the public (including the media) that such a thing exists as a "semiautomatic machine gun". That is such blatant stupidity that we shooters never believed such hooey would fly.

We were wrong. A Machine Gun can have a semi-auto MODE in which it fires only one shot per pull of the trigger, but it is still a Machine Gun. The AR-15 is NOT a "Semi-automatic Machine Gun" because it is NOT A MACHINE GUN AT ALL. It LOOKS like one. Because many of its components are SIMILAR to the M16, and shares many of the same design characteristics, it is lightweight, easy to carry, relatively easy to shoot and keep clean (Hey, it was designed for soldiers), in a caliber where military surplus was plentiful, it became popular with ex-soldiers and, unfortunately those guys like me labeled "Gun Nuts". I like my AR-15. Yup, I've got one. I have YET to see that sucker go full auto, and if it does, I'll be the FIRST to turn myself in STRAIGHT TO JAIL for owning an illegal machinegun. I don't have to worry. It never will.

But the sheeple public DOESN'T KNOW THAT, and when I take the time to explain that paragraph above to them, I get a glassy-eyed "Whatever".

The same tactic is being used here. Did you notice in the body of that legislation up there it says "Used by the US Military against personnel and materiel"? That's a dead giveaway. You don't use a sniper for killing crates of rations or shooting out the steel tracks of a tank. The type of .50 caliber the MILITARY thinks of is the BROWNING M2 MACHINE GUN, also known as the "Ma Deuce" or "KING OF THE BATTLEFIELD". It is a fearsome weapon, with good reason. The M2 is a FULLY AUTOMATIC .50 Caliber MACHINE GUN, classified as a Heavy Machine gun that can destroy light armored vehicles and unprotected buildings.

But the Browning M2 is a MACHINE GUN, not a RIFLE. But the definitions have been DELIBERATELY obscured to deceive people who couldn't care less about guns, whose answer to what they see as technical hair-splitting is: "Yeah, whatever. Fifty Caliber is bad."

The plain, simple truth is that .50 caliber rifles are no more or less dangerous than any other rifle. Mishandling or deliberate misuse by ANYONE is dangerous, EVEN those upstanding guys who wield them in the righteous name of the United States Government.

Are we starting to see a pattern here? First, get people riled up. Then, obscure the reality a little by providing just a little misdirection defined as "definition". When people are thoroughly confused, throw them some heinous crime statistics and BINGO, you've got a perfect blueprint for getting awful, patently illegal (read UNCONSTITUTIONAL) legislation passed.

I realize this is preaching to the choir, but you must all realize what we are up against. I know I am wasting my time typing this, but maybe, just maybe, I'll get through to Just One Person...if it saves Just One Child from being a robotic proletariat...Whoah, sorry...couldn't resist that one.

The truth is CRIMINALS DON'T USE THESE RIFLES. Do you want to know why?

Because honestly, patiently shooting a single shot at THAT kind of distance with the kind of precision and discipline that it takes to hit what you're aiming at is so far out of the functional realm of even "high class" criminals as to make the concept laughable.

So criminals don't really use these guns. Why ban them, then? What is the ulterior motive?

Pay attention; this is just the next step towards banning all firearms, like our neighbors across the Atlantic, the English. First it was Handguns, then Rifles, then finally sporting Shotguns and all firearms of a caliber above .22 rimfire, and now, none at all, except in the hands of the government and the criminals. Watch England as she deals with trying to remain civilized while her subjects are preyed upon from within by both the government AND the criminal element. Her process of de-evolution can, and is, happening here.

A good question to ask is: "Can these rifles be used for sniping?" An excellent question. The answer is YES. But it must be qualified that so can ANY rifle. United States GOVERNMENT Snipers can and have used them, and are using them in Afghanistan, paid for with the bottomless funds of YOUR tax money. But this bill won't affect them. It never does. Weird how that works, huh?

But truthfully, ARE they being used for sniping? According to the VPC (Violence Policy Center - Gun Control Central) they certainly are...a whopping 12 times in...gee, they fail to mention a time frame...how about that? The last year? The last decade? The last CENTURY? More Lying With Statistics, I'd say. But that's where your legislators go for "unbiased, educational information" on Firearms.

So now we have this piece of legislative trash to deal with. PLEASE MAKE NOTE of the congresscritters sponsoring this bill. Whether the legislation passes or not, let us end these vampires' sucking from OUR TAXPAYING NECKS by voting them out of office: Fifth District/Illinois Congressman BLAGOJEVICH [Website | E-mail] and 29th District/California Congressman WAXMAN [Website | E-mail]  (It pays to know your congresscritters so you can decide whether or not you want clods like THIS representing YOU.)

This bill is the next step towards a total gun ban. If you think they won't come for yours eventually, you are sadly mistaken. If you think you can hide them, you can't, because the ATF only has to look at the Form 4473 (You know that yellow form you're required to fill out and sign EVERY TIME YOU PURCHASE A FIREARM?) to know who has the guns, and when your category comes around, you will be treated just like all the others. Nobody is exempt (except the government). Nobody. I've been singing this tune for so long I know the words by heart. How many more "categories" of firearms are we going to have to see made into objectionable items, and therefore CRIMINAL TO EVEN POSSESS before we all get a clue as to the final goal? How many more pieces of the puzzle do you have to have spoon-fed to you before you finally realize the genocidal picture?

I pray, for your sake and mine, we don't take as long as the British or the Austrailians. For them, it is far too late. There is still hope for us and it doesn't cost you even as much time as it cost me to write this article. Sit down at your computer. Pull up WORDPAD for crying out loud, dash off a note telling your congresscritter how you feel, print it out, address an envelope, slap a stamp on it and SEND IT OUT. Or use this: Write Your Representative Service.

Or shut the hell up and take it up the tailpipe, because if you do nothing, you DESERVE to get screwed. I am so sick and tired of trying to tell people when bad things are about to happen, only to sadly say "I TOLD YOU SO" after the fact. At first, it was fun. But after a while I realized that the smug, self-satisfied smirk and superior feeling of victory were hollow indeed as I saw my fellow citizens pissing away our rights out of sheer, unadultrated APATHY.

Just because I'm not one of those patient, disciplined hobbyists who can make a steel silhouette go "GONG!" at a thousand meters, does not mean I don't care what happens to them. Because if you own a gun, YOUR category will come up. Maybe not next, but eventually. And at this rate, it will sneak right up on you and it could be YOUR home defense gun, or your personal protection sidearm that you currently legally carry under your license, that is suddenly illegal.

What happens after the "Sniper Rifle" ban? You KNOW the VPC is just itching to get Handguns banned...and when that happens, your Concealed Carry Permit that you're so proud of, that gives you just a little back of the freedom we all once enjoyed, becomes a worthless strip of paper or plastic, and literally OVERNIGHT you become a FELON. That's right. Lumped together with murderers and rapists and robbers, for doing nothing more than possessing something it was legal to own just five minutes ago. And if you don't stand up for the fity-caliber shooters now, who, as a matter of fact are a very laid-back bunch of folks, who do you think is going to be left to stand up when it's YOUR turn?

You, the public, already turned your back on those crazy "Gun Nuts" like ME who own those nasty, evil, media-invented "Assault Weapons" (Even though those same rifles in the hands of our Trusted Government Officials are okay...the Government wouldn't own "Evil" rifles...no, of COURSE not! That photo of the government officer in the green with the body armor snatching Elian is carrying a WATER PISTOL...REALLY!) so honestly, I wonder why I'm even warning you. A perverse side of me thinks you should get what's coming to you the way I did in '94 and I should just shaddup and let it happen since you don't care anyway. But I cannot in good conscience do that.

So, as a grand exercise in futility, I write. Maybe there IS just a little satisfaction in saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" And when this piece of legislative offal passes, I SWEAR I will write an article with that title.

If it doesn't pass, I will instead write an article praising the good sense of the people who wrote their congresscritters, and I may even shaddup for a while.

This one is real, folks. Look it up for yourself. HR 3182 Then pull the chain on these bastards before it's too late.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 50caliber; assaultweapons; banglist; freedom; government; guncontrol; liberty; sniper
Everybody thought I was nuts when I told them about the "Assault Weapons Ban". The shooters just KNEW nobody could be stupid enough to buy it, and the non-shooters WERE stupid enough to buy it. And look what we have now.

It's starting again. Duck And Cover!

1 posted on 07/30/2002 8:53:44 PM PDT by DGallandro
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To: phasma proeliator; da_toolman
PING
2 posted on 07/30/2002 8:55:48 PM PDT by jdogbearhunter
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To: DGallandro
Since the second ammendment has nothing to do with sport or hunting, I am particularily ired that our lawmakers commonly use a specific firearm's lack of sport or hunting utility as cause or justification to be banned or further regulated.
3 posted on 07/30/2002 9:06:07 PM PDT by umgud
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To: DGallandro
I should add my own commentary to "The Congress Finds That:"

1) "Fewer legal restrictions on their possession and transfer than there are on handguns" -- well DUH. The "Reason" why there are so many restrictions on handguns, or so they told us, was because HANDGUNS are CONCEALABLE. Go ahead, you try concealing a fifty-four-inch-long, TWENTY POUND rifle in your freaken hip pocket! This is COMPLETE BULL.

2)"the intended use of these long-range firearms, and an increasing number of models derived directly from them, is the taking of human life and the destruction of materiel" -- Destruction of Materiel? Yeah, right. I'm going to risk SSgt Buddy Joe Hooah deep in enemy territory to shoot up a crate full of rations? No. The Browning M2 Machine Gun is used for destruction of materiel. Remember what I said about misdirection by "definition"? Here it is!

3)"these firearms are neither designed nor used in any significant number for legitimate sporting or hunting purposes and are clearly distinguishable from rifles intended for sporting and hunting use." -- There are just under a THOUSAND people in the United States who would quietly disagree with you on that. Just because it's not a POPULAR SPORT, does not make it any less a sport. Most of you congresscritters wouldn't know a silhouette shoot if you sat by the gong. And since WHEN did the Constitution read "the right to keep and bear arms, as long as there are enough people who use them for sporting purposes, shall not be infringed"? Just because such a rifle is not popular, it should be made ILLEGAL? Does anyone ELSE see anything wrong with this?

4)"extraordinarily destructive ammunition for these weapons, including armor-piercing and armor-piercing incendiary ammunition, is freely sold in interstate commerce" -- Extraordinarily destructive? Yeah? McDonald's Shakes Are Triple Thick, too! Triple Thicker than WHAT? Extrodinarily Destructive to WHAT? Or more destructive than WHAT? Adding a fun but meaningless adjective can punctuate a weak argument like this one. And most of that "armor piercing" and "incindiary" ammunition is GOVERNMENT SURPLUS...so, they're saying "We've provided you this stuff therefore we're banning it?" It should also be noted that there are AP rounds floating about for EVERY military caliber in the world, and by these clowns' definition, even tracers are considered "Incindiary".

5)"the virtually unrestricted availability of these firearms and ammunition" -- Virtually Unrestricted? GO BUY ONE! Or TRY, anyway. Go ahead. Virtually unrestricted provided you have a credit card with a VERY VERY high limit! And a clean background. And no domestic violence charges. Etc. Etc. "Virtually Unrestricted" MY BUTT!

Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

DG
4 posted on 07/30/2002 9:14:18 PM PDT by DGallandro
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To: jdogbearhunter; phasma proeliator
Hmmm, may have to add to collection before it's too late.
5 posted on 07/30/2002 9:24:26 PM PDT by da_toolman
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To: DGallandro
Remember when I said I knew this was coming? Here's proof. From my earliest article I wrote here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/580883/posts

Go ahead, have a gander. Both at the article and what I posted later on down.

DG
6 posted on 07/30/2002 11:17:22 PM PDT by DGallandro
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: DGallandro; *bang_list
Bang_list bump......

Stay Safe !

8 posted on 08/01/2002 10:23:08 AM PDT by Squantos
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: DGallandro
Looks like they covered black powder 50s, too.

(d) 50 CALIBER SNIPER WEAPON- The term `50 caliber sniper weapon' means a rifle capable of firing a center-fire cartridge in 50 caliber, .50 BMG caliber, any other variant of 50 caliber, or any metric equivalent of such calibers.

10 posted on 08/05/2002 4:41:57 PM PDT by packrat01
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To: packrat01
Looks like they covered black powder 50s, too.

Depends on how you read the legalese. I think they mean to only cover center-fire, but I think a nasty court could read it to mean all .50 cal firearms.

11 posted on 08/05/2002 4:52:58 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: packrat01
Not only that, but they have also included .50 AE (Action Express, the Centerfire cartridge for the Desert Eagle) in this definition. I wonder if this error of omission was inadvertent or deliberate?

Even though the .50AE is a HANDGUN cartridge, there are AR rifle uppers made for it.

This ban is bad legislation and bad news, both.

I'm sincerely hoping never to write that article entitled "I TOLD YOU SO"

DG
12 posted on 08/06/2002 8:40:18 AM PDT by DGallandro
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To: DGallandro
CAN YOU GET AN AR-15/M16 TYPE SEMI-AUTO IN CALIFORNIA?.?.?.. IS THERE ANY THAT ARE LEGAL THAT DONT HAVE THAT GAY 10 RND INTERNAL MAGAZINE THAT IS ATTACHED. IF YOU CAN'T BUY A 7 RND M15A2 .223 FROM ARMALITE....BUT YOU CAN BUY A 10 RND M1A .308 FROM SPRINGFIELD, THAT IS REALLY GAY..... THE M1A HAS MORE MAGAZINE CAPACITY AND A MORE POWERFUL CARTRIDGE.......WHY OUTLAW AR STYLE SEMI-AUTOS
13 posted on 04/23/2003 1:37:51 AM PDT by fdafdaf
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To: fdafdaf
The "Black Rifle" situation in California is so muddy and screwed up from my point of view, I cannot even comment intelligently on it. Last I knew, they made you register your "Assault Weapon", then they said the registration was "null and void" and all "Registered" weapons were now illegal and had to be turned in.

Around about that time, I realized that the People's Republik of Kalifornia is a socialist AND fascist State, and I have nothing left but pity for its residents.

I know people who still have AR's, quietly locked up and/or buried in the PRK, most likely never to be seen again in our lifetime. It is our heritage of firearms that prevented invasions by the Japanese in World War II, and the Russians in the Cold War, and now those folks who know better than us who run the PRK are pissing all over that heritage and tradition, in the name of phony "for the children" safety soundbites.

Last I checked, the poor 14-year-old in Central California got the distinct horror of watching her two siblings murdered by a wack job WITH A PITCHFORK because by California Law, her own rifle was locked up by her father to prevent him from going to jail for "providing easy access to a firearm to a minor."

Oh yeah, gun control works. Killed those two kids dead as if the SENATORS THEMSELVES HAD STUCK THE TINES OF THE PITCHFORK IN 'em.

As far as AR's...best Sport-Utility-Rifles on the market if you can afford 'em. If you're in the PRK...might I recommend a good surplus SKS and a lot of prayers?

DG
14 posted on 04/24/2003 1:07:10 PM PDT by DGallandro (If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.)
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