'Pledge' Mom: My Daughter Is No Atheist

Fox News ^ | Monday, July 15, 2002 | Fox News

[fortress]

NEW YORK

[BartMar]

"I'd just like to suggest that you strongly consider moving to a country where God is banned - China would be good for a start."

I take it you are a member of the Christian Taliban. Those christians that wish to include their religion in all parts of public life and to hell with the rights of any that don't agree with them.

[Xenalyte]

Holy cat, how many times did Banning say "um"? That frequency must be up there with "a," "an" and "the" in her vocabulary.

[Xenalyte]

Can dish it out but not take it yourself, eh?

[BartMar]

Thanks, Mark. I missed that part about Ben Franklin proposing prayer in the Convention. Three times then and all "strikes" for religon.

It isn't the easiest read in the world but "Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787" is out there. ISBN 0-87975-388-9

[Isadora Duncan]

Are you harmed by the words 'Under Allah'? But would you want to say them?

Allah is the arabic word for God. Considering that we live in an English speaking country, we say God. If we were a French speaking country we'd say Dieu, if we were an Italian speaking country, we'd say Dio, if we were a German speaking country, we'd say Gott.

As a Christian, I know in my heart and soul what I mean when I say God. My Jewish friends know in their heart and soul what they mean when they say God.

Our Founders did not write the Constitution in such esoteric language that it would not be understood by the 'common man'. Establishment of a religion simply means that there would be no Church of America. It's just that simple. It's not the Constitution in error here. It's the miscontrued laws that a liberal culture has imposed over the last 40 years that has distorted the Establishment intent beyond recognition.

[Isadora Duncan]

Interesting that those wanting to say that the Constitution doesn't mention God or Creator, referring always to a distinction between the Declaration and the Constitution, tend to forget the last line of the Constitution which clearly says done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America . . .

[Isadora Duncan]

"Try to find the word God in our Constitution"

Does the phrase done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America apply? This is the last line of the Constitution.

[F16Fighter]

I'd like to see Rita Crosby "interview" either of the Clintons with this kind of tenacity. She's a bulldog of an interviewer.

[F16Fighter]

"I take it you are a member of the Christian Taliban..."

What a moronic thing to say. Unless you are doing time at mental health facility -- then it's perfectly understandable.

[artios]

MissMillie asserts "We are all harmed by the words "under God" being forced on us by government agencies. In America, we are all free from such religious establishment."

We are to accept it as true because MissMillie says so.

I assert "all frogs are red"

I am incredulous that you doubt my assertion.

[fortress]

Yes, Rita is pretty thourough. I like her style.
The Clintons would never appear in such a venue. For them everything is prepared and choreographed.

[fortress]

I think she must have been surprised about the doggednes of Rita's questions. But I thought she came across pretty well though, for regular folk.

[Wondervixen]

>>We are all harmed by the words "under God" being forced on us by government agencies.

Speak for your damn self. You don't speak for me, MY family, nor anyone else for that matter. Where you people think you have that right is beyond me, because you DON'T!

[syriacus]

It depends on what your definition of "harmed" is, I guess. Newdow lied when he said his daughter was being harmed. It sounds like the person whose sensibilities were really harmed was Newdow. (Amazing how many people are lying under oath lately!)

Does Newdow suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder? It's so easy to picture him stuffing his fingers in his ears when he has the misfortune to walk by a school with open windows at 9 AM.

(Muttering under his breath, "I can't hear those words. I can't hear those words. I can't hear those words")

[kidd]

I defy you to find even one official federal government document that contains words to the effect of "there is no God."

Atheism is not simply the belief in no God. It is the belief in nature. To the atheist all things have come from nature. And all things will return to nature.

In our public schools, children are taught that the big bang happened all by itself. They are taught the we evolved from slime by simply giving chance circumstances enough time. They are taught that Racheal Carson is the greatest human to have graced our presence.

Don't tell me that atheism isn't our state-sponsored religion.

[Tired of Taxes]

Atheism isn't a "religion", even if Newdow thinks so. "Atheism" literally means "a" (without) "theism" (religion). If atheism were a religion, atheist organizations would receive the same tax-exemption status that religious organizations receive.

If you don't like what children are taught in public schools, then you shouldn't have to pay a school tax to support it, whether you're Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, atheist, whatever. And therein lies the whole problem: We're each being forced to pay for a system we don't want.

[kidd]

The Founding Fathers wanted religon out of our government

No. They wanted government to avoid establishing a religion. They also wanted government to avoid restricting its free practice. These ideas have been voted on, approved of and placed in the Constitution. The "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. It is an opinion. It has never been voted on. It has never been approved of. It is, at best, a goal. For the most part, it is good practice.

In the case of the Pledge, there isn't any "church" to separate from the state. There is no establishment of a religion. I would argue that it doesn't even establish monotheism; it establishes that our rights come from a higher source than government and that the role of government is to make sure that those rights are not infringed upon. The only type of person who would find offense in "under God" is someone who has an agenda to make the word "God" illegal - a clear restriction of religious practice.

[kidd]

Athieists believe in nature. They believe that everything has come to be, as a result of purely natural happenings. And when a person dies, they return to nature. Their belief in nature has all the earmarks of a religion. The closest thing to non-religion is not atheists, it is the Unitarians.

And yes, some of the more extreme nature worshiping groups do have tax-exempt status. But a more common tax-exempt atheist organization is much easier to find: public schools.

[Tired of Taxes]

Kidd,

I am an atheist. We don't "believe" in nature; however, we do tend to rely on science to answer our questions.

When you say "nature-worshipping groups", maybe you're thinking of pagans? Pagans aren't atheists.

I know, I know, I have trouble keeping it all straight, too. I still haven't figured out "wiccans", but, I assure you, whatever they are, they're not atheists either. Neither are deists. And, while we're at it, I'm not so sure about secular humanists, as I still haven't figured out what secular humanism is... Can anyone tell me? And the agnostics, now there's another group... And don't get me started on all the different religious sects; there are so many, it's so confusing.

Ahh, yes... It's much easier to just acknowledge that I only know what I can verify, and I don't even know that much... hence, atheism (without religion at all).

[kidd]

I am an atheist. We don't "believe" in nature; however, we do tend to rely on science to answer our questions.

Webster defines "religion" as a personal set or institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs and practices. Perhaps you don't "worship" nature (such as the pagans you mentioned), but you attribute all that is and all that will be - to nature. This is your belief. You may attempt to quantify your belief through scientific discoveries or theories, but it is still a belief in nature without any involvement from a single Creator. There is as much "faith" in atheism as there is in any other religion (ex, the Big Bang, evolution, the development of the human intellect, etc). Perhaps you don't dress up in funny clothes and pick one day a week to go to a specific location to meet with others who believe as you do, but atheism is a religion.