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RAT ATTACK [Or: The Left is self-destructing as we speak...]
a Dem site that unintentionally made the Right look great | June 25, 2002 | various

Posted on 06/25/2002 3:39:12 PM PDT by summer

RAT ATTACK [Or: The Left is self-destructing as we speak...]

Note to FR, from summer:

I myself have never used the word "RAT" before to describe a Democrat, but today I find there is no other word appropriate to describe the kind of animalistic attack that has now exploded on the left - all because the GOP and Nader got together not long ago.

GOP Grover Norquist's weekly meeting -- attended recently by Nader -- was the spark that lit the flame in this firery exchange below, between a certain Dem web site and Nader's campaign manager (who affirmed she was speaking with Nader's approval).

From where I stand as an independent, this heightened level of vicious in-fighting on the left probably caused them to lose even more voters today, as who wouldn't be disgusted with this non-stop fighting. The Dem Party looks to me like it's going down faster than the Titanic…

For educational purposes only (and, I guess for the entertainment of some), excerpts from this RAT ATTACK follow. First, an open letter from the Dems was posted on a Dem web site to Nader. Then, Nader's campaign manager responded -- and affirmed the response was approved by Nader. Again, what follows is only an excerpt:

-----------------------------------------

Open Letter to Nader Posted on a Dem Web Site Complaining About Nader at GOP Meeting

Dear Ralph [Nader],

A number of your supporters have written …. asking why we have criticized you so sharply since 2000, and especially in connection with your recent appearance at Grover Norquist's Wednesday Morning Group.

It occurs to us that inquiries should really be directed to you.

In soliciting an invitation to Norquist's group, you knew exactly whom you were getting involved with, didn't you? Not a harmless assembly of conservatives or Republicans, as some of your supporters seem to think, but the national nerve-center of the hard-right wing advocacy groups and political machinery.

The apex of coordinating the continuing right-wing attacks on economic justice, civil rights, freedom of choice, separation of church and state, gun safety, environmental protection, you name it.

And when you were there, you ingratiated yourself, seeking their support, noting that much of what they said was "good" and much of the rest at least "arguable," taking in their cheers and applause over your vital aid to them in the 2000 election, making fun of liberals as conspiracy freaks, winning kudos from Phyllis Schlafly and Grover himself.



Not all of your supporters seem aware of exactly who is involved in Norquist's Wednesday Group. So here's a partial list of the core members, which includes either leaders or representatives of:

n The Christian Coalition
n The National Rifle Association
n The Free Congress Foundation
n The Eagle Forum
n Tom DeLay's office
-- The Republican National Committee

as well as representatives of the right-wing media, including (when they are in D.C.) the likes of John Fund and David Horowitz.

Now, Ralph, we don't see you out there these days soliciting invitations to meetings for and seeking the support of People for the American Way, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the Alliance for Justice, the National Abortion and Reproduction Rights Action League, the Sierra Club, and similar liberal and progressive groups.

As far as you're concerned, it seems, YOU are …the one man who…, in his passion to destroy the Democratic Party, will gladly keep the right-wing Republicans in power.

For you, it makes sense to run spoiler Green candidates against progressive liberal Democrats like Paul Wellstone, to insure their defeat so that the G.O.P. can retake the Senate in 2002.

For you, it makes sense to, in turn, give the G.O.P. the power to ram through George W. Bush's right-wing judicial nominees, consolidating the power of the Rehnquist-Scalia axis on the Supreme Court, and making the rest of the federal judiciary even more of a hotbed of right-wing activism than it is now.

For you, it makes sense to keep Tom DeLay in charge of the House of Representatives.

Let's face it, Ralph. You're so interested in destroying liberals that you'll meet with anyone and everyone who will aid that cause - including the Wednesday Morning Group.


Isn't that right? Or what have we missed?

Not just to speak when invited - you will solicit invitations to the right-wing inner counsels.

To what end, Ralph? …..

Ralph Nader has emerged as an agent of the right-wing Republican Party.

Everything he says or does has the direct practical effect of making the right-wing Republicans stronger, in the long run as well as the short run.


Having received 2% of the vote from the American people - one-tenth of what the dime-store demagogue Ross Perot received in 1992 - he tries to elect as many extremist Republicans to office as possible ….

He uses whatever underhanded, anti-democratic tactics he can in order to do so.

He will run spoilers in close elections, like in Minnesota.

He backs term-limits, a quick and dirty way to deprive Americans of their right to vote for a candidate of their choice and improve prospects for the Greens and worsen the prospects for veteran Democrats.

He hopes and intends to inflict so much pain on the country that voters will have no choice but to acknowledge his greatness or perish.

Ralph cloaks these efforts and facts by appealing to and manipulating people's idealism, their hopes for a better America and a better world, all the while snuggling up to the most reactionary and vicious forces in our political life.

The [gun supporters, mentioned in derogatory terms…]

The [pro-life supporters, mentioned in derogatory terms…]

[etc., as the list continues in derogatory terms] ….



Ralph, we believe that you owe your supporters and admirers, many of whom read and support [this Dem web site] explanations for your appearance at the Wednesday Morning Group, for your alliances, past and present, with Grover Norquist, and for your larger efforts that redound to the benefit of the right-wing Republican Party.

We hope you will take the opportunity provided by this Open Letter to offer those explanations.

Our columns are, as ever, open to you.....[end]

---------------------------------------------------------

Posted later, on the same Dem web site:

Ralph Nader's 2000 Campaign Manager has responded on his behalf ….

Her response…..

From: Theresa Amato
To: [Dem site]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Response to Your Open Letter to Ralph Nader


Dear [Dem site] ,

….. Your supporters are rightly questioning your motives for assailing Ralph Nader since 2000, especially for presenting his views at Grover Norquist's right wing, Wednesday morning ritual. I am taking this opportunity to respond on Ralph's behalf …

The writer(s) of your speculative, unsubstantiated rants against Ralph make clear that their sources for the Nader/Norquist meeting are second hand. Unlike them, I was at the Norquist meeting and can tell you exactly what happened. First, the invitation. If you will recall, a few months ago, Bob Borosage pointed out in the American Prospect that the right wing has a "Mighty Wurlitzer" of disciplined propaganda. Much of it is generated by Norquist's Wednesday meetings. Shortly after that article, Ralph and I bumped into Norquist at a media outlet and I sought an invitation - to see first hand how the "Mighty Wurlitzer" works, especially because we are building a progressive forum on the first Thursday of every month. Why not get an inside view on the dynamics of the Wurlitzer? One can seek to understand an adversary without being a subscriber. And the right wing regime is worth understanding for it has turned out - successfully -- a spew of right wing politicians, right wing legislation and right wing propaganda (that the Democrats have notably failed to stop or counteract, despite their control of the presidency and one or both houses of the Congress). As Ralph put it directly to those in attendance, Norquist's meetings are just "like a cold-blooded, ideological marine barracks."

More importantly though, why shouldn't Ralph take the opportunity …Is it Ralph's fault - or to his credit -- that Phyllis Schlafly saw the light about the inconsistency of the right wing in supporting corporatists? ….

…..

Your suggestion that Ralph doesn't solicit invitations to meetings with liberal and progressive groups and that this is indicative of some desire to keep right wingers in power is total nonsense….

To imply that there is some taint or conspiracy by attending a meeting that members of the press were invited to cover - and on the record at Ralph's insistence -- is absolute silliness. Ralph did indeed suggest to Norquist's buddies that there are common areas to work on: like getting members of Congress to put their voting records on line, like getting government contracts on line - because sunshine is the best disinfectant for politicians of any stripe and electronic access to this information is key. Should people be kept in the dark and wait another century for those in power to put their voting record on-line voluntarily?…. Should people who go to these meetings and have the courage to stand up for their very different beliefs be smeared by your Democratic Party propaganda machine? …This neo-Stalinistic approach as to who fits into your liberal progressive tent is breathtaking. Maybe it is you who needs a history (as well as an accuracy)lesson.

Finally, your attempt to label Ralph - who has worked for four decades on behalf of citizens -- as appealing to and manipulating people's idealism is pretty screwy coming from spin doctors like yourselves. Your fury at Greens and others who are participating in power without your permission, ….show that you are just an unabashed front for the Democratic Party….. Your shilling for the Democratic Party uber alles is so transparent it is laughable. Desperation indeed....



Theresa Amato

(P.S. I was the campaign manager for Nader 2000. And you can publish this because I do not hide…)



------------------------------------------

From: [Dem site]
To: Theresa Amato
Date: Saturday, June 22

May we have confirmation from Ralph that he endorses the contents of this letter?

---------------------------------

From: Theresa Amato
To: [Dem site]
Date: Saturday, June 22

Yes.


----------------------------

Dem Response to Nader/and Nader's campaign manager:

....There is only one immediately pertinent question left, now that we've gotten your attention, Ralph.

Will Ralph Nader unequivocally and publicly oppose the efforts of the Green Party or any other of his supporters to run candidates against progressive Democrats in close races this fall, beginning with the Senate race in Minnesota? Or will Nader try to throw the election to the Republicans as he did in 2000?


TOPICS: Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: dems; gopgrovernorquist; nader; politics
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To: hchutch
While some might not like Norquist, I have to admit he is one very cagey operator. This guy has just sown some SERIOUS seeds of discord among our enemies, and as they try to prove their bonafides among the leftists, we move in and clean up in the center big time.

This is a brilliant stroke on Norquist's part. I, for one, applaud him.

I am so not surprised.

The Left already hated Nader, because they blame him for Gore's loss. But he would be no different in 2004 than Perot or Buchanan after their first tries... polling at a fraction of their earlier popularity.

Norquist/Nader meetings do squat for our chances of getting anywhere with centrist swing voters. The very idea smacks of late-night, East Coast, would-be RNC-wonk political fantasy.

Nevermind the discord that RINOs like Norquist and his ilk sew in the GOP. Big time.

Really, nevermind.




61 posted on 06/25/2002 4:58:30 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: summer
I'm not sure how exactly it happened. But, it did.

I totally lost any remaining respect I had for D*ms about a week aftr the last Presidential election. (Not that I had a lot to lose after *8* years of x42)

62 posted on 06/25/2002 5:21:18 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: summer
Thanks for posting this! I love the title -- RAT ATTACK! You are so right!
63 posted on 06/25/2002 5:31:11 PM PDT by PhiKapMom
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To: oldtimer; summer; Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks all. It really is a beautiful state. I have travelled all across the country and lived on the Goergia/Florida border for several years and I always find myself coming home.

I guess we can all say that home usually holds the strongest pull on us.

I have a fact for you oldtimer that you are probably not aware of. In Mass, a lot of the Democrats are Conservative Union types. As a matter of fact, most of them are more socially conservative then myself(Which I think is a good thing.). The problem is, they will vote for whoever gives them the most state run projects. This is the Democratic party usually. Why do you think South Dakota votes for that guy Daschle? Farming subsidies.

Of course, our press and acedemia(Very strong here.) are practically Communist. I am not just labelling them, they really ARE Marxists. So, the people vote for who will give them the most money. I vote for who will leave me alone.

In the long run, those union guys are going to be awestruck at thier short-sightedness but what will happen to my state? I will stop here as I could go on for to long but we are in Dukakis 2 mode. Can you believe it!?!?! We are doing the SAME THING! It actualy makes me laugh... and cry.

Summer, thanks for your kind words and I myself think times are changing. I find myself battling so much propoganda up here, I tell my Left Wing debating opponents that all of this hateful rhetoric is just that. They know me and I am a nice guy that helps many people. I explain that I just want everyone to be happy and to have everything they need. I tell them we have DIFFERENT VIEWS. Then I ask them, do they REALLY think I want to see people starving, poor or a million other things they claim that I wish. Usually I sort of get through at this point...

Then they say, "The Rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer!!!"

Then I say "What do you want me to do EXACTLY?", here they usually stammer because they know that most of my time is spent working for myself and others. Read Ernest at The Beach's link to the definition of the left wing and you will get a pretty good idea why they do this. Thanks Ernest!

This same employee (Who I gave a raise over the objection of a LIBERAL!), told me that she believed the state should own my business!?!?!?!? I told her they would have to drag me out dead!

She would be sleeping in a cot with fifty other workers in her "Paradise," but she WANTS THIS!?!?! Insane. In the words of one of my fellow conservatives, "The world has gone insane," to which I would add; ESPECIALLY MASSACHUSETTS!!! REad Ernests link, it is great. Also, I have had a few, so cut me some slack! :D Beer... taxed here as a LUXURY!!! LOL! I kid you not!

64 posted on 06/25/2002 5:35:53 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: Grampa Dave
Of course, NO ONE ON EARTH IS EVIL!!!

Except for Christians and Conservatives, THEY are the REAL enemy. SARCASM ON!

65 posted on 06/25/2002 5:37:23 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: summer
In light of my considerable ignorance about Norquist, I did some research. Below is an article about his ideas and his career from Insight on the News. Click here for article

Grover Norquist takes on the tyranny of federal taxation.(head of Americans for Tax Reform)(includes biographical information)(Interview)

Author/s: John Berlau

Issue: Jan 26, 1998

The founder and president of Americans for Tax Reform reamed his conservatism as a child anti since has given himself over to grass" roots activism as a Republican antitax policy advocate.

Ever since Republicans took control of Congress in 1994 and his long-time friend, Rep. Newt Gingrich of Georgia, became House speaker, conservative antitax activist Grover Norquist has become increasingly prominent as a Republican idea and power broker. Most Republican political candidates at both the federal and state levels now sign the pledge promoted by Norquists group, Americans for Tax Reform, or ATR, to vote against tax increases. And every Wednesday, Norquist hosts a morning meeting of conservative policy wonks, lobbyists and congressional staffers to discuss strategies to move their agenda forward. He tries to unite conservatives of various stripes in what he calls the "Leave Us Alone" coalition.

Insight: How did you become a conservative?

Grover Norquist: I was actually a foreign-policy conservative first. The Weston, Mass., library sold off for a nickel each all of its old conservative books. So I got Witness by Whitaker Chambers for a nickel. I got I Led Three Lives by Herb Philbrick. I got Masters of Deceit about the Communists by [J. Edgar] Hoover. And I read them as an 11-year-old.

People come into the general conservative movement from different directions. I was first an anticommunist, but then as I learned economics I became an economic conservative. Just being an American makes you be in favor of freedom and against too much government, and if you think about it for long you realize that we've drifted away from that over the last several decades.

Insight: You've referred to conservatives as the "Leave Us Alone" coalition. How did you envision this?

GN: I was writing a book called Rock the House trying to explain how and why we took the Reagan coalition, the center right presidential majority which we've enjoyed since 1968, and drove it down into Congress. And what I was trying to get to is what is the central organizing principle of the center-right conservative coalition. And I would argue that everybody is in the room for many different reasons, but they're all in because on whatever issue that brings them to politics they wish to be left alone.

The gun owners -- such as the members of the National Rifle Association -- get involved in politics because they don't want their guns taken away. Homeschoolers come to politics because they want their children left alone. Tax activists come in because they don't want to be taxed out of existence. The smallbusiness and property-rights groups don't want to be regulated out of business, don't want their property taken away and their businesses expropriated by regulation or by taxes.

This doesn't mean that everybody in the conservative movement is a libertarian, but on the issue that motivates them they want to be left alone, they want the government away.

Insight: Some would say the Christian right is trying to impose an agenda and are not necessarily interested in "leaving us alone."

GN: You have to go back to the motivation. The Christian right did not get organized in 1963 when prayer was taken out of public schools. They didn't organize in 1973 with Roe vs. Wade [which legalized abortion]. They organized in 1978, 1979 and 1980 in response to the Carter administration's assault on Christian radio stations and private schools. Carter's IRS announced to anybody who started a Christian school in the last 20 years: "We'll presume your school is a segregated academy, so we attack and take your status away from you." And then they started leaning on Christian radio stations for not giving equal time -- to whom, the devil? That's when the Southern Baptists got political and got organized. The reason the Christian right got organized was in self-defense against a series of [government] assaults.

I've been in the room when Republican leaders turn to a Ralph Reed and say "What do you want?" "We want tuition tax credits, we want per-child tax credits, we don't want the government to take our money and make fun of our religion with the National Endowment for the Arts funding Piss Christ." This fits very comfortably in the "Leave Us Alone" coalition.

Insight: How did your life change when all of a sudden in 1994 Republicans swept both houses of Congress and you went from being an outside agitator to a close friend of the speaker of the House, the third most powerful man in the federal government?

GN: It was less of a transition than I expected. I flew down to Atlanta to spend election night with Speaker Gingrich and his campaign in 1994 because I believed we were going to take the House and the Senate, and we had decided sometime earlier that summer that it was doable and going to happen. So I can remember hearing on TV that the establishment announced that Republicans will take the House and Senate and not being particularly surprised.... That night, Gingrich passed out ice-cream bars and champagne to 20 or 30 of us sitting there. Then he said, "Okay, that's done. Now, back to work." The next morning I was on a plane back [to Washington] for the Wednesday "Leave Us Alone" meeting organized toward what do we do now.

The difference, I suppose, is that now the establishment press has been somewhat more open to our viewpoints, whereas before these people didn't know and didn't care -- although that's not completely true. There are still reporters who have never phoned the taxpayers' movement and asked what we thought about anything.

Insight: Any other significant changes for you or for ATR after Republicans came into power?

GN: We have focused a lot more at the state level as a result. When Republicans said, "We're going to come in and disperse power to the states," they actually meant it. So we've focused a great deal on building state taxpayer groups in all 50 states and networks similar to the Wednesday "Leave Us Alone" coalition, only meeting in states. Now, on almost everything we do, there's a two-track process, there's federal legislation and there's state legislation

Insight: What do you look for in an issue to go after or to recommend to the Republican Party to pursue?

GN: Does it unite the "Leave Us Alone" coalition, unite the center-right? Does it make everybody happy, or are they at least indifferent? There are some issues that different groups don't care about, but they should be either for it or indifferent.

Does it divide the left? School choice reaches right into the heart of the Democratic coalition and takes people out of it. It divides the left because the teachers' unions are on one side and all the parents of poor children are on the other and it makes Bill Clinton choose between poor parents and teachers' unions. Paycheck protection [requiring unions to seek workers' permission before funding political activities], sets up union bosses vs. workers. Seventy-five percent of union members are for paycheck protection, but union bosses are against it. So you look for an issue that unites your side, keeps the center right "Leave Us Alone" coalition together, and divides the other side and allows you to reach in to the Democratic coalition and take their hearts out.

A third rule of thumb: Is it important enough that when you win it, you have something? Is it worth the candle? I think ultimately our goal as a center-right coalition should be to reduce the total cost of government in the next 25 years by half, using four measures of the size of government: federal, state and local spending as a percentage of GNP [gross national product]; the regulatory burden as a percentage of GNP; the total employment of people by the government; and assets controlled by the state, generally pension money and land.

Insight: And you think you can cut all this in half in 25 years?

GN: That's one generation. In half is radical, but 25 years makes it reasonable, because you can phase in Social Security as a fully funded system in 25 years. You could see education becoming more effective and more efficient over a 25 year period. One generation includes losing presidential elections, having setbacks, having recessions. I could draw you a picture of how we could do it in six years if I wanted to presume everything worked perfectly. But it doesn't work that way.

Insight: You seem to be more optimistic than other conservatives about the future of the movement. Why is that?

GN: I'm optimistic, I think" because I spend an awful lot of time et the movement level on a lot of different issues. If I worked only one issue, such as right to work -- and we haven't passed right to work since the eighties -- I could get frustrated. But since we work on, both at the federal and the state level, so many different issues, we revel in the successes. If you just look at school choice in Washington, we lost. But we passed it in Minnesota and Arizona, and we're close in Pennsylvania So I see successes at the state level and small successes at the federal level that can be replicated in other fields.

The other thing is I got out of college in 1978. There were two threats to American liberty: the Soviet Union and Washington. One of those is finished.... We now have the opportunity to turn our attention from fighting the Soviet Union and redeploying our assets to reducing the size and scope of the federal government, which is the other threat to our liberties. Frankly, Washington has done more damage than Moscow ever had a chance to -- because Moscow never got over here.

RELATED ARTICLE: Personal Bio

Born: Oct. 19, 1956, in Sharon, Pa.; raised in Weston, Mass.

Education: Bachelor's degree, economics, 1978; M.B.A, 1981; Harvard University.

Career: Executive director, National Taxpayers' Union and College Republicans, 1981. Economist and chief speechwriter, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, 1983-84. Founded Americans for Tax Reform in 1985 and series as president. Norquist is also a Washington lobbyist.

Favorite Movie: Moscow on the Hudson. "A celebration of immigration. It's the most patriotic movie ever made!"

Favorite Book: Paul Johnson's Modern Times.

Hobbies nod Pastimes: "I read murder mysteries, um, [long pause] for fun. During the eighties, l was very active with the Afghan resistance, and in Mozambique and Angola. Did a lot of political training for the Krieble Institute in Europe. I've been to all the Eastern European countries. I've just been to Japan for the founding of Japanese for Tax Reform."

COPYRIGHT 1998 News World Communications, Inc.

COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group

66 posted on 06/25/2002 5:42:30 PM PDT by gitmo
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To: summer
I think I understand what you meant now!

I think this makes perfect sense:

The only people you should ever try to convert to your philosophies are those who agree with you.

I didn't make my point well. The letter-writer on Media Whores was criticising Nader for speaking to a group of conservatives. If their goal is to persuade people to be environmentally "wise", then Nader should be speaking to those who aren't in the Democrats' fold. They should be praising him for speaking to the "great unwashed" (i.e. conservatives).

The evangelist John Wesley spoke in bars and town halls, not primarily churches.

67 posted on 06/25/2002 5:58:42 PM PDT by gitmo
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To: summer

68 posted on 06/25/2002 8:05:13 PM PDT by wontbackdown
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To: wontbackdown
ROTFLMAO!
69 posted on 06/25/2002 8:43:39 PM PDT by summer
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To: gitmo
Re your post #66 - gitmo, That was a very interesting read. Thank you for taking the time to find it and post. I especially liked what he said about the "Leave Us Alone" philosophy. I never heard anyone explain conservatives that way before.

It's strangely amusing to me, now, how the ideas of the GOP are not as frightening when one considers them just for what they are, instead of how they are so often packaged by the left.

On a somewhat related note, for example, there was a time I actually believed all the left's demonization of Gov Bush. Yet, now I think: How can the FL teachers union president not offer to work with Gov Bush, when he has obviously given so much of his time and devoted so much effort to increasing opportunity and improving education in this state for everyone? He even helped teachers -- not that she would ever tell teachers. But, I tried to. Maybe someone heard. Who knows...

BTW, here's an article about Norquist I found, from The Atlantic Monthly. Another interesting read. Thought you might enjoy it as well . :)
70 posted on 06/25/2002 9:25:13 PM PDT by summer
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To: gitmo
article about Norquist = article by Norquist...
71 posted on 06/25/2002 9:26:12 PM PDT by summer
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To: gitmo
You made your point on this very well here:

The evangelist John Wesley spoke in bars and town halls, not primarily churches.

:)
72 posted on 06/25/2002 9:27:49 PM PDT by summer
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To: PhiKapMom
See the RAT ATTACK graphic in post #68 if you want to laugh! :)
73 posted on 06/25/2002 9:28:57 PM PDT by summer
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To: Arioch7
I vote for who will leave me alone.

I actually understand what you said here, Arioch7. :)
74 posted on 06/25/2002 9:32:43 PM PDT by summer
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To: Virginia-American
Funny, that week I lost alot of respect for them too. Thanks for your post here.
75 posted on 06/25/2002 9:34:26 PM PDT by summer
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To: Virginia-American
Although, as you mentioned -- there wasn't actually "a lot" of respect left to lose at that point....
76 posted on 06/25/2002 9:36:35 PM PDT by summer
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To: summer
a person can go to a meeting with people on the right, and talk, and discuss"

Mike McConnell, local host of a Cincinnati morning radio talk show interviewed Ann Coulter Tuesday morning. During the discussion, she discussed the point, (this is paraphrased, of course) -- Conservatives produce ideas that are available for discussion and modification..Liberals merely critisize, assassinate and try to destroy while calling names like juveniles.

It was a great interview!!

77 posted on 06/25/2002 10:22:47 PM PDT by Chu Gary
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To: petuniasevan
"For their strategy to succeed, their constituency must be kept ignorant, afraid and unempowered."

This is why Communism is barely gasping in Vietnam and other places. Now that the international media is available, even a wacko station like CNN delivers much more credible info about freedom than the state run media.

78 posted on 06/25/2002 10:30:04 PM PDT by Chu Gary
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To: summer
Cool! :D
79 posted on 06/25/2002 10:30:36 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: gitmo; summer
GROVER NORQUIST'S STRANGE ALLIANCE
WITH RADICAL ISLAM.




80 posted on 06/25/2002 11:10:19 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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