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Environmentalists Irk Angry Anglers [Envirowacko Alert!]
FoxNews Channel ^ | FoxNews/Ap

Posted on 06/22/2002 5:43:29 PM PDT by Salvation

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:34:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

MIAMI

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: enviralists; fishing; florida; housecommittee; righttofishact; seantecommittee
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To: Carry_Okie

The only real solution is private property.

I agree. Not because I've looked at the specific fishing industry rather, because I've seen private property rights as the solution to most everything that has market value. A principle (or natural law) that is universal in its application.

Now that I think about it, I wrote above without even thinking about it but I naturally referred to fishing as an industry. Which it is -- from recreational to fleets of boats and stocking and all that it encompasses. A common denominator in all market and industries is that government should not interfere.

21 posted on 06/22/2002 7:33:06 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Zon
LOL! No, 5! The correct spelling would be Mark Edward van de Pol, but the INS on Ellis Island had their way with my great grand father's family name.
22 posted on 06/22/2002 7:58:39 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Morgan's Raider
Well, they should not be allowed to "force" their misery on us. Just because they bring it up does not mean the lawmakers have to abide by what the environmentalists say. This is America after all and we ALL have a right to a say in matters. I'm tired of all these groups and their whining. They don't like it so they want it stopped whatever it is or how silly it is. Get out there and enjoy life instead of creating problems.
23 posted on 06/22/2002 8:01:23 PM PDT by cubreporter
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To: Salvation
Great greenie update. Just how in the heck do the environmentalist count the number of fish in the ocean? As usual, there is no pratical science in their agenda. According to their earlier predictions....all oceans were supposed to be NOT able to sustain life by the year 2000.
More scare tactics from the left as usual...
24 posted on 06/22/2002 9:15:45 PM PDT by JustSayNoNWO
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To: Zon
How do you think people feel being pinched by the government everyday for a third of their pay? You're insane if you think anybody but you and your stooges will feel sorry for the fish.

Boy, is that well put.

25 posted on 06/22/2002 9:31:58 PM PDT by pray4liberty
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To: Salvation; Carry_Okie; Zon; lawdude
Hi Sal! I've not been around much lately. Did you see this one?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020618-95535210.htm

Conservatives angered by environmental provision

By Audrey Hudson and Amy Fagan

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

A tax break for environmental groups is being added to part of President Bush's faith-based initiative, angering some conservatives. The provision gives a 25 percent discount on capital-gains tax to private property owners who sell their land to environmental groups or the government, instead of to other private parties.

Sen. Phil Gramm, Texas Republican, called the environmental tax break a "dangerous concept" that "favors conservationists over churches, schools and orphanages." "It's one thing to encourage charitable giving; it's another thing to distort the marketplace," said Mr. Gramm, who plans to attack the provision today at a Senate Finance Committee meeting.

The tax cut is supported by the Bush administration and sponsored by Max Baucus, Montana Democrat and Finance Committee chairman, and ranking member Charles E. Grassley, Iowa Republican.

Mr. Baucus defended the tax cut, saying "We're trying to protect the value of more open space." Mr. Grassley supports the concept because he says it will benefit farmers.

Private-property-rights groups are fighting the tax cut, which first appeared as a 50 percent break in Mr. Bush's budget. The budget remains deadlocked in the Democratic-controlled Senate, and attaching the tax cut to the popular faith-based initiative makes it difficult to defeat, critics say.

"The administration must be very uncomfortable with the lack of support from their constituency to sneak this land-grab program into the faith-based initiative," said Carol LaGrasse, president of the Property Rights Foundation. "I just can't believe it, Bush is such a disappointment," Mrs. LaGrasse said. "But we are not giving up."

Mr. Gramm will try to remove the provision from the overall package of tax benefits for donations to faith-based or community charities during the bill's consideration today in the Senate Finance Committee. He unsuccessfully tried to do so last week. He warned that if the tax cut remains in the bill, he will offer amendments on the floor to extend the same benefit to "every bleeding heart" group.

Sen. Don Nickles, Oklahoma Republican and assistant minority leader, said the capital-gains tax should be reduced for everyone. "The solution is to reduce the capital-gains tax to 15 percent, period, " Mr. Nickles said.

Mike Hardiman, spokesman for the American Land Rights Association, called the tax cut a "gravy train for wealthy land trusts." "It's so sleazy, so disingenuous. They can't defend this stuff in public, so they are trying to sneak it through in an unrelated bill. This is looney," Mr. Hardiman said. Historically, when "green" groups purchase private land, they sell it to state or federal governments, which takes the property off tax rolls and hurts local economies, as well as costing the government money to sustain the property, Mr. Hardiman said.

The House passed a faith-based initiatives bill last year, but it did not contain the environmental tax cut. "Will wonders never cease?" said Henry Lamb, president of the Environmental Conservation Organization. "That just boils my water."

The underlying charities bill - crafted by Mr. Baucus and Mr. Grassley - is based largely on a bill crafted by Sens. Joseph I. Lieberman, Connecticut Democrat and Rick Santorum, Pennsylvania Republican, along with the White House.

Providing tax incentives to encourage charitable giving is a top priority of Mr. Bush and represents a piece of his larger faith-based initiative.

Among other things, the bill would allow those who do not itemize on their taxes to deduct some of their charitable giving and would allow tax-free donations from Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) to charities.

The House-passed bill contains similar provisions, but also contains the hotly debated "charitable choice" component, which would allow religious organizations to compete for a wide array of government grants. The Senate bills do not contain charitable choice.

26 posted on 06/22/2002 10:39:50 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: Salvation
Now the enviro wackos and animal rights nuts want to outlaw fishing. Man what wouldn't I give for a tasty trout... or a swordfish steak! ;-)
27 posted on 06/22/2002 10:52:08 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: *Enviralists
.
28 posted on 06/22/2002 10:56:15 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: AuntB
Yep, I'd seen it. There are some things one would rather forget.
29 posted on 06/22/2002 11:01:04 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
After 9/11, I've done all I could to support this president. But it's getting more difficult by the day.
30 posted on 06/22/2002 11:24:01 PM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB

The provision gives a 25 percent discount on capital-gains tax to private property owners who sell their land to environmental groups or the government, instead of to other private parties.

EARTH TO GOVERNMENT: common sense says you should be selling land, not buying it! Sheesh!

"We're trying to protect the value of more open space."

Use it or lose -- exercise your brain. <g>

31 posted on 06/22/2002 11:25:24 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Salvation
Do they still use people to hunt gators in the swamps? This would be an excellant job for these enviro whackos BAIT FOR GATORS!
32 posted on 06/22/2002 11:30:42 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: Salvation
Closing some areas to fishing and leaving them as a nursery to raise more fish can benefit the fisherman. By providing an area where fish can reach an age where they are at their peak reproductive years while safe from over fishing then you have a great breading ground for repopulating the surrounding ocean waters. The area where fishing is off limits will quickly become over populated with fish and the fish will migrate to other areas in search of food and less competition from their fellow fish. Areas that are fished heavily have few fish that reach their peak reproductive years and so there are fewer fish born to replace those that are caught by fisherman.
33 posted on 06/22/2002 11:45:59 PM PDT by One More Time
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To: tet68
That actually is the problem. The commercial fishery with their tight seine nets grab everything they can get from the sea. The fish they throw back are dead, and only the sea gulls prosper.

Too much waste.

Regards,

34 posted on 06/23/2002 4:52:19 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine
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To: Salvation
"When they get hooked they feel pain just like a cat or a dog or a duck."

What about they pain you feel when you get bit by a rattlesnake,or getting mauled by a bear,or getting a limb tore off by a shark,or getting munched by a wolferine.Hell even a fish can sting the hell out of you taking it off the hook.A catfish has to be the worse.Barracudas have big nasty teeth.A school of pirranahs will shred you to pieces.That gotta hurt too.

35 posted on 06/23/2002 5:29:00 AM PDT by Uncle Meat
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To: Salvation
Sometimes I wonder, how in the world, did these enviornmentalists get where they are? They act as though they alone OWN the earth. There is no common sense with very little thinking going on here.
36 posted on 06/23/2002 6:28:10 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: Salvation
Thank God our left-wing govenwhore here in NY watches CNN. He's already mulled over a hunting ban in order to pander to the enviro-wacko-libs. First my gun now my fishing pole. Swell. Lou Wein Si! Pataki No!
37 posted on 06/23/2002 11:47:40 AM PDT by jabonz
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To: AuntB
Isn't this interferring with a contract? I can see no way this would be held up in court. Absolute discrimination!
38 posted on 06/23/2002 4:10:44 PM PDT by lawdude
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To: Salvation
The bill, if passed, would make it harder to develop controversial no-fishing zones such as those created off the Florida Keys last year.

This article is misleading, in that FL's "no-fishing" area off the Keys was created with the input of commercial fisherman here in FL.

So, it seems this article is really talking about the rights of people who fish for sport and fun.

Well, all I can say is this: Gov Bush and his family go fishing off the west coast of FL, which is known around the world for its tarpon fishing. So, I think this governor will always support sports enthusiasts' right to be able to fish.
39 posted on 06/23/2002 6:56:22 PM PDT by summer
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To: One More Time
Re your post #33 - I am wondering if that is one of the reasons the commercial fishermen did agree to the "no fishing" zone off the Keys mentioned in this article.
40 posted on 06/23/2002 6:57:58 PM PDT by summer
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