Well... could we maybe let them have California? Maybe not.
As for Texas...
Click to read the history of the Gonzales Flag
Posted on 06/22/2002 1:28:14 PM PDT by Mom_Grandmother
The Mexicans,They Died for a Just and Honorable Cause.
(Did They, Really?)
I Seem to recall Americans saying the same thing about our men at the Alamo! But today I hear more talk about how damn brave the Mexicans are and how they are going to take this state and that state back. From everything I have been able to gather, we're going to let them have what the hell they want and the hell with the Alamo and it's Hero's. We have finally become the "Roll Over and Play Dead Nation" I don't feel like fighting if it does not involve me.
Those men stood their ground for what they believed was theirs and this great nations, they were tortured when captured, murdered, stripped and burned, and all we can do is sit by and watch their death become a "Cause for Nothing".
Maybe the Americans thought so then and there are still some of us today that think so, but to to watch and listen to the sorry state of affairs happening to our Southwest today, you'd never know that these brave men were once our "Hero's", we seem to have forgotten about them.
The Battle of the Alamo As Seen by the Mexicans
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The Traditional Version
Provisions were scanty, ammunition was scarce, and help was nowhere in sight when 185 Texans, barricaded inside an old mission, fought a 4,000-man Mexican army. During the 12 days of siege prior to the final battle, the gallant Americans reinforced the walls, dug trenches, and mounted their 18 cannon while being harassed around the clock by Mexican rifle and artillery fire and scouting parties.
"I feel confident that the determined valor and desperate courage heretofore evinced by my men will not fail them in the last struggle; and although they may be sacrificed to the vengeance of a Gothic enemy, the victory will cost so dear that it will be worse for him than defeat. God and Texas! Victory or death!" So ended the final plea for assistance from the Alamo’s commander, Col. William Travis.
After rejecting the Mexican demand for unconditional surrender, Travis assembled his men (including the legendary Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett) and offered them the choice of fighting to certain death or leaving the fort. All chose to stay except one man, who managed to escape through the tightening Mexican encirclement. No other defender would remain alive.
On March 6, 1836, the Mexican army, commanded by Gen. Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, attacked the fort from three sides. Twice the Texans repulsed them with bullets and cannon, but sheer numbers finally permitted the Mexicans to gain the walls and pour into the fort. The Texans, out of ammunition, used their rifle butts for clubs as they fought hand to hand. Those who survived the assault on the walls retreated slowly, desperately fighting from room to room in the barracks.
Although certain Mexican officers requested clemency for the last surviving Americans, Santa Anna ordered them massacred. Mexican soldiers tossed the Texans’ bodies on their bayonets as if they were bales of hay. As a final insult, the Mexicans stripped and burned the corpses.
Although outnumbered 20 to 1, the Alamo defenders indeed made Mexico pay a heavy price. At least 1,500 Mexicans were killed or wounded, and Santa Anna’s advance into Texas was delayed for two weeks, which gave Texas enough time to gather the army that defeated Mexico two months later. Thirteen months after the Alamo fell, Texas declared its independence from Mexico’s repressive, dictatorial rule, which not only had denied Texas such rights as statehood, trial by jury, public education, and religious freedom but also had proscribed slavery.
The Other Side
Mexico generously opened Texan lands to American settlers who, corrupted by their greed for land and the precious metals it contained, ignored the 1824 Mexican constitution which they had sworn to obey and took advantage of Mexico’s internal problems to revolt. The Texans demanded legalization of their despicable practice of slavery, formed unauthorized governing bodies that collected taxes but did not return any of this revenue to the state, continually demanded more and more land, and insisted on rights granted only to sovereign nations.
This bold infringement on the honor and property of Mexico could not be permitted. "The colonists established in Texas," declared a circular distributed by the minister of relations, "have recently given the most unequivocal evidence of the extremity to which perfidy, ingratitude, and the restless spirit that animates them can go, since -- forgetting what they owe to the supreme government of the nation which so generously admitted them to its bosom, gave them fertile lands to cultivate, and allowed them all the means to live in comfort and abundance -- they have risen against that same government, taking arms against it... [while] concealing their criminal purpose of dismembering the territory of the Republic."
General Santa Anna, who had taken control of the government three years earlier, declared that he would "strike in defense of the independence, honor, and rights of my nation." Fired with patriotism, he formed an army and gave this order: "The foreigners who are making war on the Mexican nation in violation of every rule of law are entitled to no consideration whatever, and in consequence no quarter is to be given them."
The enemy took refuge in the Alamo when they saw the Mexican army approaching. After a 12-day siege, four columns of soldiers and reserves quietly positioned themselves on four sides of the fort in the predawn darkness. They were thrust into battle by the ancient Spanish bugle call that signaled "fire and death."
The revolutionaries’ barrage of cannon and rifle fire stopped the initial charge and killed valiant officers and soldiers who had won the honor of being among the first to attack. When a second attempt was likewise repulsed, Santa Anna ordered in the reserves. Soon the army surged over the north wall, where wooden planking allowed a foothold, and overran the defenders.
As the Texans retreated to the barracks behind sandbag barriers and trenches. Mexican soldiers followed. Fierce fighting ensued, but the Americans fell quickly, especially when their cannon were turned against them. The wrath of the army abated only after all the foreigners were killed. The number of Mexicans lost in the battle was appalling, but they died for a just and honorable cause.
"The bottom line: What's possible is what people want to be possible. If five states wanted to secede and the rest of the country wanted to let them go, it could happen." ( Daniel Feller, professor of history)
But Charles could very well be right. It could happen. There are any number of political scenarios that could make it happen. But it would take Mexican-Americans getting organized enough to do it. "I've studied lots of civilizations. The United States is just like any other empire. It's not going to live forever. Eventually it will break down because of stresses." (Juan Jose Peña, Hispanic activist and vice chairman of the Hispanic Roundtable)
The Republic of the North -- he predicts its creation as "an inevitability" -- would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado." (Charles Truxillo, a professor of Chicano studies at the University of New Mexico,)
and there's the rub,ain't gonna happen.
I still have relatives in Texas and I don't think they'd take kindly to Mexicans, Latinos, Hispanics or whatever trying to take over.
All of this land belonged to various Indian tribes before Mexico took it. And they never really controlled it.
And of course, the Spanish took it from the Mayans, the Inca's, the Olmecs, etc.
Tell you what, I'll consider giving this land back to the Indians who originally had it, if all people of Spanish descent get out of Mexico, Central American, and South America, and give it back to the indigenous tribes.
They'd better be ready for a fight. And they have already gotten a taste of what 184 Texans can do.
We'll just see how "inevitable" the "unification of Aztlan" will be. I, for one, will not stand idly by while backward racists ("La Raza" = "The Race") try to steal U.S. territory. They'll get no better than the Confederacy did, and probably much worse for good measure.
Imal
2. States right of sucession was considered pretty much moot by April 1865. Texas may have made a valid point for disassociation as it was part of the agreement when the COUNTRY of Texas joined the COUNTRY of the United States of American.
3. Any Mexican country carved out of US territory would probably end up being very much like the Mexican country run by Mexicans currently. Power would be held by a few rich families and 20-40 percent of the popualtion would have to go North to the next country to find employment. Imposition of the Mexican legal system, such as it is, on people used to the USA's legal system would have to be forced by an iron fist.
4. The best deal would be for the northern states of Mexico to form a confederation, hold a very brief 'The Mouse that Roared' system military action agaisnt the US, and wait for US aid to pour in.
The Mexicans were dumb to encourage Yankees to settle in the barren lands of Texas. The Mexicans assumed we'd be just like the mestizos (Mexican Indian, quasi-slaves) and be obedient in all things and that we could be handled. Sort of like the Indians in New England when the Pilgrims landed.
It is that same difference in culture that will ensure the Aztlan will never happen. The only hint of civilization that Mexico has today, comes from the outside, Spain, France and the US. Beyond a few Aztec place names and Indian racial traits, nothing remains of the native culture.
Over my dead body!
I watched the little Prick on Hannity & Colmbs last night, he's still a small turd floating around with even smaller turds.
Well... could we maybe let them have California? Maybe not.
As for Texas...
Hardly seems like this ephemeral occupancy has a better claim to legitimacy than over 150 years of Anglo-American control.
I have seen what is happening to communities here. I have seen people in small towns, people living in fear and their property devalued because someone put in a trailer park for these illegals. Employment in small towns is a very precious and scarce commodity and when the balance of the economy is tipped for these people to come in and take over as the primary employees of a industry (I am speaking agribusiness), then others loose their jobs at the banks, schools, grocery stores, and government offices such as welfare, etc., because they are not hispanic.
But for all the bravado, I will not hold my breath for anyone to fight this. If we were going to fight it, we would be boycotting the industries that bring them here. President Bush and other politicians would be so concerned about 'our' votes, they would be sending these people home and getting them out of our communities and our lives. But we are doing nothing and that is exactly what we will continue to do until the government man comes ---
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