Microsoft .Net software's hidden cost

Yahoo ^ | Sat Jun 22,11:11 AM ET | Joe Wilcox

[Dominic Harr]

Microsoft .Net software's hidden cost
Sat Jun 22,11:11 AM ET

Joe Wilcox

Companies planning on moving their old programs to Microsoft's new .Net software plan had better prepare for sticker shock: Making the conversion could cost roughly half of the original development cost, Gartner says.

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According to a new cost model devised by Gartner, the cost of moving older Windows programs to .Net may range from 40 percent to as much as 60 percent of the cost of developing the programs in the first place.

That may come as a blow to penny-pinching information systems departments in big companies, even those very familiar with Windows programming.

Typically, moving to a new software release isn't so costly. But, warns Gartner's Mark Driver, .Net isn't just a new release of Windows.

"People mistakenly assume the cost of upgrading will somehow be the same as going from one version of a well-established product to another. That's definitely not the case (with .Net)," said Driver, who devised the cost model.

Ari Bixhorn, Microsoft's product manager for Visual Basic.Net, disputed Gartner's conclusions. He said most conversions to .Net are about 95 percent error-free, meaning they can be completed at a cost much lower than what Gartner estimates.

Gartner, however, considered factors other than code conversions in its analysis, such as training and lost productivity. Bixhorn said he didn't see either training or productivity problems as much of a concern.

Microsoft's .Net plan includes new releases of the company's Windows operating system and other server software, along with development tools and infrastructure to make programs more Internet-aware. One new technology supported by .Net is Web services, which promise to make linking internal computer systems, and systems residing in multiple companies, far easier than current methods.

What's unclear is whether the additional cost of moving to .Net will slow Web services releases. Several technology buyers told News.com this week that they are waiting for additional standards and better compatibility before they commit to large-scale projects.

The most prominent piece of .Net released so far is Visual Studio.Net, a new version of Microsoft's development tool package, which debuted in February.

Visual Studio.Net includes new versions of familiar tools such as Visual Basic and Visual C++. But the tool bundle is radically different than predecessors. It includes a new development language called Visual C# (pronounced "see sharp"), and introduces the .Net Framework and Common Language Runtime, which are technologies for managing and running programs.

The new development tool package also ushers in ASP.Net, a specialized type of software called a class library, replacing an older technology called Active Server Pages (ASP) for creating Web applications that support new Web services technology.

Still, long term, Driver predicted that making the switch to .Net for building new programs would help lift productivity and create more efficiency within companies.

"Over the course of the lifetime of an application, .Net might give you 20 percent cost advantage or more over using the older technologies," he said. "You will be able to recover that migration cost over the course of three to five years."

Companies making the switch could do so all at once, but most will likely make the change over a longer period of time. Either way, the cost of migration stays the same.

"It's an issue of paying the 60 percent up front or over the course of three years," Driver said.

The largest cost is code conversion. Because it is difficult to calculate, the 60 percent estimate in some cases could be too low.

The cutting edge can hurt
Gartner based its migration cost estimates on Visual Basic.Net and not on its cutting-edge, Java-like Visual C# programming language. One reason: Cost. A forthcoming study will say the migration cost associated with C# would be even higher than the standard Visual Studio .Net tools, Driver said.

"Some clients have asked about going directly to C#," Driver said. "For the vast majority, going from Visual Basic to Visual Basic.Net may be painful, but it's going to be the least painful of the strategies."

C# is seen as a crucial programming language for advancing .Net. Use of the language doubled in six months, according to a March study by Evans Data.

Without a doubt, companies switching to the new tools and migrating software applications over the long haul will find the switch over the easiest, but even they face difficulties in planning. Driver used the example of a developer running the older version of Visual Studio and Visual Studio .Net over a protracted period.

"That becomes untenable at some point," he said. "You've got to make the switch. So even if you go with a hybrid model, you've got to remember that you're spreading your resources thin over two different platforms."

There are other concerns about making the switch to .Net. At the top of the list is security, Driver said. Following a January memo from Chairman Bill Gates ( news - web sites), Microsoft cranked up emphasis on security. But problems have still surfaced in recent months.

"Some people are hesitant to put Internet Information Server (behind a public Web site) because of security issues. Well, .Net doesn't really address those problems," Driver said. "IIS is still just as vulnerable with .Net running behind it as the older ASP (Active Server Pages) code running behind it."

IBM and Sun also are pushing hard into Web services, advancing their own technology strategies and tools.

Security will be an important part of that emerging market. Market researcher ZapLink said on Thursday that the Extensible Markup Language ( XML) and Web Services security market would top $4.4 billion in 2006.

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Those of us familiar with your MO know how you operate.

Yeppers. He's a Java bigot. He thinks anyone who uses anything else is ignorant. I'm sure he'd love for Ralph Nader and the other leftist commies at Sun to be able to force the government to regulate (dictate) what you run on your desktop. He also criticizes operating systems he's never even used. This is the same moron who called IBM's MVS and Digital's VMS operating systems unstable. Apparently even Linux wizards Alan Cox and Linus Torvalds acknowledge those OS's superior to Linux. Check your stock prices... IBM and Microsoft are doing very nicely thank you. Sun?...well it's doubtful they will survive the next 5 years. Finally Sun just blew it with the JDK 1.4 release big time. They crippled the Windows sockets/NIO implementation and blamed it on MS. Probably intentionally as they don't intend on fixing it for 6 months. Now they just shot themselves in the foot as that gives those writing high performance servers more reason to flush Sun. Can't play with the big boys in big leagues at all. However, I do predict that IBM will probably at some point end up owning this franchise run by pimply faced kids, and make something out of it. At that point Microsoft may well get back into the Java ring since they won't have to negotiate with retards.

[PatrioticAmerican]

.NET case studies. Why can't you read and do your own research? Hell, this came from Microsoft's site, for you to find, instead of bashing .NET and saying that "no one" is using it.

Accenture Accenture software architect and consultant Dennis Wagner worked closely with a team from Avanade to build materials that will help clients develop scalable, reliable applications for the Microsoft .NET Framework.

ACCOR Services With the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET development tools, ACCOR Services is building an integrated, homogeneous platform for its back-office applications and XML Web services.

American Electric Power Developers at American Electric Power are using Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework to share code and knowledge, and collaborate across distances as virtual teams.

Arthur Andersen Most people would say that it's crazy to build a mission-critical application on a beta platform, but Arthur Andersen's e-business consultants successfully built a new application for reviewing and monitoring medical research using Microsoft .NET.

Autodesk When Autodesk wanted to prototype building a new client-server analysis and visualization application for all of its drawing file formats, it turned to Microsoft .NET.

Babcock & Jenkins Babcock & Jenkins only recently began developing its next-generation applications with the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET, and it is already realizing impressive gains in developer productivity.

Banco Itaú Banco Itaú developed and deployed a Web-based online payment solution for its customers using the Microsoft .NET platform and other Microsoft technologies.

Bank of Nova Scotia When Scotiabank's Dealer Finance Centre network's existing mainframe system failed to produce timely monthly reports, they resolved to build two new applications with Microsoft .NET.

Best Software For Best Software, keeping up with the times means, in part, keeping up with Microsoft operating systems; so as Microsoft moves to the .NET architecture, Best Software is following suit.

BindView Utilizing the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET, BindView is creating security solutions that enable customers to manage security policies and run security checks through a single, Web-based interface.

Brierley & Partners Brierley & Partners used Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework to build an integrated, Web-based customer relationship management (CRM) solution.

Buy.com In just two weeks, two Buy.com developers using Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework created a personalized shopping portal that provides customers with faster access to products of interest, account information, and order status.

Cap Gemini Ernst & Young When Cap Gemini Ernst & Young (CGE&Y) decided to get their feet wet with Microsoft .NET, the company chose to implement a generic framework that its consultants could reuse on other projects.

Carnival Cruise Lines When Carnival Cruise Lines needed quick turnaround on creating a Web-based application for processing customer information requests about the company's ships and cruises, it turned to Microsoft .NET and Microsoft Windows®.

Clarus Corporation Using Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework, Clarus Corporation has created ClarusNet, a collection of services that gives Clarus developers easy access to the tools they need to produce valuable business-to-business (B2B) solutions.

Click Commerce Learn why Click Commerce rewrote its core application with Microsoft ASP.NET and C#.

Compaq Using the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET, Compaq quickly built a powerful XML Web service that is now providing B2B and business-to-consumer (B2C) access to its Enterprise Resource Planning system.

Comprehensive Software Systems (CSS) Faced with an ever increasing demand for wireless services, CSS created ECMExpress using Visual Studio .NET and Microsoft ASP.NET with the Microsoft Mobile Internet Toolkit.

Continental Airlines By developing a mobile travel-planning application with the.NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET, Continental Airlines is significantly reducing deployment time, eliminating overhead, and providing transparent interoperability with host systems.

Corillian To produce its financial transaction technology for consumers, Corillian has made a commitment to the .NET platform, adopting the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET.

Credit Suisse First Boston Based on the .NET Framework, CSFB's Zero Impact Application Deployment (ZIAD) initiative is designed to reduce the cost of deploying and supporting desktop applications.

CyberWatcher Seeking more powerful integration and communications capabilities, CyberWatcher is implementing a new release of its Web-based data mining software using the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET.

Deutsche Bank Deutsche Bank's Global Equity Derivatives unit gave its developers access to XML Web services and ASP.NET custom controls with Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework.

divine, Inc. Using Microsoft .NET technology, divine developed an Operational Support System featuring more than 800,000 lines of code written in Microsoft Visual Basic® .NET, and used Microsoft BizTalk® Server for integration to other enterprise application platforms.

Dollar Rent A Car Dollar Rent A Car generated millions of dollars in additional revenue by using Microsoft .NET to create an XML Web service interface to expose its existing mainframe-based reservation system.

Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Developers at investment bank Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein (DrKW) have found that the .NET Framework, Visual Studio .NET, and C# deliver a Rapid Application Development (RAD) platform that can be developed quickly and meets users' needs.

Eclipsys Corporation Eclipsys Corporation is using Microsoft .NET to meet its goal—to make the SunriseXA architecture the "Microsoft Office of Healthcare."

EdgeRender Inc. The Microsoft .NET platform has allowed EdgeRender to achieve its goal of quickly and affordably producing the richest products and services possible.

EDS EDS was developing its E-vis applications on UNIX, but has now adopted the Microsoft .NET Framework, and is developing its next-generation solution with Visual Studio .NET.

Emirates Group When the Emirates Group decided in April to join with MSN® Arabia to build the MSN Arabia Travel Channel, they decided to build the site using Microsoft .NET, with additional technology from Galileo.

ESRI Using Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework, ESRI is providing its clients with the means to easily incorporate geographic information system (GIS) technology into their applications.

FrontRange Solutions, Inc. FrontRange Solutions, Inc., chose Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework as the integrated development environment to unite its more than 60 developers who came together from the merger of three companies. See other FrontRange Solutions case studies.

Global Trade Technologies, Inc. Learn how Global Trade Technologies, Inc. built a subscription B2B e-commerce bond-trading Web site for retail broker/dealers using Microsoft .NET technology.

Harris Interactive Harris Interactive is creating an online registration system with the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET, reducing development time, increasing database searching speed, and providing flexible business logic.

Home Shopping Network (HSN) In just three weeks, HSN ported the search functionality on its premier Internet shopping site to the .NET Framework, using Visual Studio .NET, Web Forms, ASP.NET, and Microsoft ADO.NET. See other HSN case studies.

Impact Technologies Impact Technologies develops software for financial needs analysis, business planning and estate planning. Find out why they chose to deploy seven Web applications with Microsoft .NET.

JetBlue Airways Using Visual Studio .NET, JetBlue developers built a high-performance application supporting a Web-based company store in record time.

KVault Software The decision to build a Microsoft .NET-based service allowed KVault Software to expand its market by making its flagship product available to small and medium-sized businesses as quickly as possible.

L'Oréal Using Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework, L'Oréal realized a single Web-based platform that can be leveraged across the company's diverse set of brands, geographies, and business needs.

Mary Kay Inc. Discover why Mary Kay is using Microsoft .NET to implement a centralized ordering system for its 850,000 consultants.

Merrill Lynch For Merrill Lynch, a three-tier architecture based on Microsoft ASP.NET, VoiceXML, and XML Web services turned out to meet all the criteria for a successful voice-response system.

Microsoft Sales and Support IT Team (SSIT) In eight weeks, the SSIT Team laid the foundation for a customer relationship management (CRM) infrastructure that pulls together data from multiple sources to provide a holistic view of the customer across all points of contact.

The National Cancer Institute The main National Cancer Institute Web site, cancer.gov, has been redesigned, re-implemented, and dramatically improved using Microsoft .NET, C#, and ASP.NET.

Navision a/s With Microsoft .NET, Navision is building an integrated business solution that can easily be adapted to the needs of a local and/or vertical market.

NDCHealth Using Visual Studio .NET and the.NET Framework, NDCHealth is developing a solution that will streamline the time required for customers to obtain estimates for new project requests, and provide a two-fold increase in Web developer productivity.

Newport News Shipbuilding Naptheon, Inc., a subsidiary of Newport News Shipbuilding, used the.NET platform, to improve its speed-to-market by 19 percent in building and launching its new application, ShipRepair.NET.

OneSource OneSource has taken advantage of Microsoft .NET technology to begin delivering and deploying access to their content and functionality via XML Web services and SOAP.

Pacific Life By using Microsoft .NET to develop XML Web services, Pacific Life's Life Insurance Division found a better way to exchange data and processes with their business associates.

Pitney Bowes Pitney Bowes has used its shipping expertise to create an XML Web service that does accurate package pricing and rate shopping.

ProTier For ProTier, the adoption of Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework created a more efficient and manageable development process, allowing ProTier to turn ideas into products faster.

Rainier Technology, Inc. Rainier recently built a feature-rich, Microsoft .NET-based Web application to assist businesses seeking to produce retirement plans for employees.

Sapient Corporation With the help of the Microsoft .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET development environment, Sapient Corporation built a medical/health-information and management solution for corporations with on-site clinics.

Scandinavian Airlines System Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS) used Visual Studio .NET and the Mobile Internet Toolkit, to provide new services to its increasingly wireless customer base. Now, customers can check flight status and rebook flights from mobile phones and devices.

Siemens Energy and Automation The Industrial Automation group of Siemens Energy and Automation is developing prototypes of a new generation of HMI Panels using the Microsoft .NET Compact Framework.

Simplexity, Inc. Learn why Simplexity had been developing its Web solutions on the Java platform but has now migrated to the Microsoft .NET platform.

SunGard SunGard Trading and Risk Systems turned to Visual Studio .NET to provide Web-based access to its powerful Panorama calculating engines, databases, and other Web services. See other Sungard case studies.

Telenor Telenor, the Norwegian telecommunications group with international operations, used Visual Studio .NET to replace its online point-of-sale customer service system on time and on budget.

Toshiba TEC Corporation Toshiba TEC has not only adopted Microsoft .NET, but also has built a reusable framework and development tools around .NET for building Retail Information Systems.

Travelers Property Casualty Travelers Property Casualty used Microsoft .NET and Visual Studio .NET to build a set of XML Web services for servicing auto glass damage claims.

U.S. Army The Contractor Support Element (CSE) of the U.S. Army’s Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) shifted from a manual system based on faxes and other paper documents, to an online system that they created using Visual Studio .NET.

USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service The USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) expects to greatly enhance its easement tracking services by deploying an n-tier .NET-based Web solution created by Synergetics, Inc.

Universal Forest Products, Inc. When Universal Forest Products needed a new centralized Production Scheduling System, they turned to SageStone, Inc. and the Visual Studio .NET development system.

UnumProvident Direct By migrating to the Microsoft .NET platform, UnumProvident Direct (UPD) expects to greatly improve its ability to service business partners with a dynamic visual interface and inter-component communication.

Webridge Powered by Microsoft .NET, Webridge Extranet utilizes the .NET Framework to provide an easy-to-implement, cost-effective way to build and customize extranet portals.

West Group West Group used Visual Studio .NET and the.NET Framework to develop ease-of-use enhancements to its WestFind&Print service, giving researchers easy access to its services.

Wizards of the Coast When players of MLB Showdown wanted an online repository for its MLB Showdown sports card game stats, Wizards of the Coast developers turned to Microsoft .NET technology.

Xerox Global Services Using Visual Studio .NET, Xerox Global Services developers rewrote an existing printer management solution from the ground-up in just six months—an effort that originally took a larger team 18 months to complete. See other Xerox Global Services case studies.

Zagat Survey By building its new content management system using Visual Studio .NET, Zagat Survey will realize the benefits provided of building, deploying, and running XML Web services and applications.

Visual Studio .NET Customer Solutions Read how companies have built sophisticated, enterprise-wide applications with Visual Studio .NET, and learn how they have dramatically reduced their usual development time.

Microsoft .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET Customers Learn about the companies building and deploying XML Web services and distributed applications using the .NET Framework and Visual Studio .NET.

[Mr. Jeeves]

It was a custom reporting application. The user enters parameters into a Web Form, then ASP.NET fires off a series of SQL Server stored procedures. A background process runs MS Access to generate Word .RTF report files, and ASP.NET provides the user with links to the newly created files. Not a huge and complex enterprise application by any means, but there were plenty of tricks to work around.

ASP.NET was a big help, largely because of the vastly superior Visual Studio IDE. ASP programming always felt like groping in the dark. Anyone who has done a lot of ASP development will really appreciate ASP.NET.

[Dominic Harr]

This is the same moron who called IBM's MVS and Digital's VMS operating systems unstable.

No, different moron, whoever that was.

I slung JCL and Cobol for too many years. MVS was plenty stable, altho somewhat labrynthine.

You're confused about a *lot* of things here, aren't you?

[Dominic Harr]

Hell, this came from Microsoft's site, for you to find, instead of bashing .NET and saying that "no one" is using it.

To repeat for the 324th time, I've all seen the MS-paid for "case studies".

I've actually read almost all of those. They've done some interesting things, altho nothing revolutionary. Prototyping, building some .NET tools, some theory work, and in the most advanced cases web forms. But in none of those case studies are there any details. That stuff is all by MS 'strategic partners' and 'early adopters' -- people specifically paid to find things for .NET to do, and with MS handling the press releases, which alone makes the entire thing suspect as a sales pitch.

We're looking for a single independent example, from real world developers, of a major, large-scale production system.

Know of any first-hand?

If .NET is as successful as you say, you must know of one, I assume?

[Dominic Harr]

It was a custom reporting application.

Cool. It's a good, solid app, sounds like.

May I ask if you had any issues porting the existing ASP code? And how much was written from scratch, and how much was migrated code?

[Dominic Harr]

Absolutely correct. I had an application that took me eight weeks to code and test in ASP.
Converting it to ASP.NET took eight hours.
Rewriting the whole thing in Java would have taken at least two weeks, maybe longer.

Um, I don't mean to be cheeky, really, but correct me if I'm wrong -- it sounds like perhaps you would have saved yourself 75% of your bosses time and money if you had just done it in Java to begin with?

Altho, from your description of the app, it would have taken you about 3-4 days in Java. That's one servlet. Or am I mistaken?

I honestly don't mean to be dense, if I'm missing something. It's just an odd thing you said.

[Bush2000]

That stuff is all by MS 'strategic partners' and 'early adopters' -- people specifically paid to find things for .NET to do, and with MS handling the press releases, which alone makes the entire thing suspect as a sales pitch.

A. Of course they're partnered with MS. Did you expect them to be allied with Sun?!?

B. Where's your evidence that any of them were paid?!? Zippo. You don't have squat. Just more lame FUD from the resident Java bigot.

C. People deploying systems are too busy to spend time telling everybody about what they're using. And you're surprised by this?!?

D. You say you want independence. This is merely a euphemism for Anything-But-Microsoft.

[Bush2000]

I honestly don't mean to be dense...

We know it's not intentional. You can't help a low IQ any more than I can help pointing it out...

[Bush2000]

We're looking for a single independent example, from real world developers, of a major, large-scale production system.

Word to the wise: This is a fool's gambit. Harr will insist that anybody associated with .NET is "bought and paid for". The only ones independent enough for him to trust are those who aren't using .NET.

[Dominic Harr]

Just one will do.

You must know of one?

[Mr. Jeeves]

Altho, from your description of the app, it would have taken you about 3-4 days in Java.

Except that we are an all-Microsoft shop with no Java expertise on staff (except me, and mine is dated). Java would have been a better solution for the original ASP application, but I can't see it being an improvement over the ASP.NET version.

[Mr. Jeeves]

May I ask if you had any issues porting the existing ASP code? And how much was written from scratch, and how much was migrated code?

The ASP (VBScript - yuk!) database code was all rewritten in VB.NET - it really wasn't ported so much as used as a model for the ASP.NET version. The Transact-SQL stored procedures required no changes, nor did the existing MS Access reports.

[Dominic Harr]

but I can't see it being an improvement over the ASP.NET version.

Well, it would have been more scalable and fault-tolerant, for sure.

ASP, even ASP.NET, doesn't scale very well.

You wouldn't have "single-vendor" lockin for your DB or web server -- there are far better web servers out there than IIS. If a more complex rich-client Gui was required, you'd be able to scale to a Java applet.

It would be less risky, since the Java has been heavily tested in real work for many years and the .NET version is brand-new, and certain to have many issues pop up.

And if you had done it in Java to begin with, you wouldn't have to have revisited the issue later, like you did.

It sounds like since you're an MS-only shop, they paid you to use the lesser technology even tho a better solution was available. You were forced to use the lesser technology. I'd say that's still the case with your locking to IIS and SQLServer.

You know, there is no such thing as a "Java-only" shop like there are MS-only shops.

You have 2 kinds of software shops -- ones that use the best solution available, regardless of tech (and they all use a mix of techs, with Java doing most of the heavy lifting) and then the shops who are 'MS Strategic Partners' and 'MS Early Adopters'. They're paid to use MS-only.

If MS is having to *pay* companies to *force* use of their technology, that is not a good sign for the technology's future.

[Dominic Harr]

Read Mr. Jeeves's post, and you'll see exactly why no one trusts the 'case studies' on MS's web page.

He billed that as a success for .NET. Upon further discussion, it turned out he could have done it better, faster and cheaper in Java, but was not allowed to "because they are an MS-only shop". And you know what an "MS-only shop" is -- one that is on one of MS's programs that rewards shops for only using MS techs, even when better solutions are out there.

They're literally having to force developers to use this stuff.

I ask one more time -- do you know of any real-world developers who have successfully deployed a large-scale production system?

[Psycho_Bunny]

I just came off a two day conference on .Net.  I left more than a little annoyed.  Like the ADO scam, .Net is another MS scam attempting to force companies to revamp and upgrade all their MS software without delivering the huge step forward that justifies the cost.  In 4 or 5 years the technology will probably be viable and useful but right now it's just bloated, slow and annoying.

[Mr. Jeeves]

MS doesn't pay us. We have only 100 employees - and we use Microsoft products to avoid the Tower of Babel that results from adopting a "Best of Breed" approach. The simple fact is, for the kind of development we do, Microsoft tools work perfectly. SQL Server 2000 is ideally suited to our needs, IIS is easy to configure and secure enough for our Intranet, and Visual Studio .NET makes the kind of applications we build easy to roll out.

Until Microsoft flat-out fails to deliver on something big, we'll keep using their tools. We, like most other small to medium-sized companies, don't have time to be a "technology laboratory". Microsoft helps us get real work done fast - so that's why we use their products.

[Dominic Harr]

In 4 or 5 years the technology will probably be viable and useful but right now it's just bloated, slow and annoying.

Yeah, that was my impression, too.

But the salesmen seem to disagree . . .

[Dominic Harr]

Until Microsoft flat-out fails to deliver on something big, we'll keep using their tools.

Um, taking 8 weeks to do something you could have done better in 1 week *is* flat-out failing. You pay for IIS and SQLServer when better, cheaper alternatives would actually work better.

If you're a small shop, you could save a mint by migrating off of MS-only. Your dev time could have been faster, and your end product far better.

MS *did* fail to provide you the best, cheapest solution. And your company stays with them?

Are you certain your company doesn't have a strategic partnership with MS? I've never heard of a company going with a single-vendor lockin unless they were compensated.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Um, taking 8 weeks to do something you could have done better in 1 week *is* flat-out failing.

Ever hear of business requirements? Systems analysis? Changing user specifications? A good portion of that 8 weeks was irreducible, regardless of platform. The actual ASP coding time was less.

You pay for IIS and SQLServer when better, cheaper alternatives would actually work better.

IIS is free. SQL Server is cheaper and easier to administer than Oracle, is superior at data transformation (a big deal in our shop), and supports stored procedures, which the free MySQL does not.

If you're a small shop, you could save a mint by migrating off of MS-only. Your dev time could have been faster, and your end product far better.

Ever hear of training expenses? Learning curves? Legacy code?

MS *did* fail to provide you the best, cheapest solution. And your company stays with them?

They provided us Visual Studio .NET, which is good and cheap enough for us. Traditional ASP's shortcomings at the time the application was originally developed are now irrelevant.

Are you certain your company doesn't have a strategic partnership with MS?

Such a partnership could only be established by me...so, no.

You are trying too hard to score propaganda points. Java isn't for everybody.