Looking for Info. on Chinese military capabilities

5/31/02 | K. Jones

[fiftymegaton]

I am looking for information about China's military capabilities especially of their tanks and their ability to fight on a nuclear fallout or chemically contaminated battlefield.

[fiftymegaton]

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[Bogey78O]

I did have it but I lost it. A whole book on how to beat them but I gave it to this nice Taiwanese gentleman to hold for me and I never saw it again.

[cgk]

For starters, I'd highly recommend Bill Gertz' book The China Threat. He covers just about every question you might have on this topic. As for web information, his website is here, containing a lot of articles about China...
The Gertz Files

Or here is some more information:
The Chinese Military Power Page

Transcript on 2000 Hearing Before the House Armed Services Committee on China's Military Capabilities

Institute for Defense & Disarmament Studies Policy Studies No. 2: China's Military Capabilities

Taiwan Communique Feb 2002

China's Military Capabilities Apr 2001

China's Nuclear Stockpile (several years old... you can bet it's more now)

Hope some of this helps.

Mrs Kus

[fiftymegaton]

Well at least it went to a good cause.

[Governor StrangeReno]

As one Chinese General said to Mc Arthur in Korea when he threatened them with nukes,"whats a couple of hundred million we got plenty more"

[fiftymegaton]

Thanks very much.

[tet68]

Clik Military matchups here.

or orbat.com here.

[ImaGraftedBranch]

ask Jeff Head. He knows the Dragon well!

[Drammach]

Here's a page address: http://www.comw.org/cmp/
Also, You can try www.janes.com
You will have to register to get limited access, subscribe for complete access, but No One is better than Janes.

Another site, http://www.softwar.net/index.html
Softwar seems a bit conspiratorial, but has lots of information on the chinese, and plenty of links.

[John H K]

Gertz is a bit of a hypemonger.

There's generally a problem of overrating China's current military capabilities...largely because of simple "bean-count" analyses. Had the same problem regarding Iraq in the runup to the Gulf War.

They tend to ignore maintenance (most of China's massive total of submarines are ancient ex-Russian boats from the 50s and 60s that never leave port, for example) and training (basically, the entire Chinese military has no combat experience whatsoever.)

There's also an over-focus on high end weapons systems just purchased, or planned to be purchased, ignoring the crappy stuff that most of the PLA would have to fight with.

One driver of a lot of this is that people are less interested in an objective analysis of the PLA than they are in bashing Clinton. While bashing Clinton is a worthy cause, people feel a need to portray the PLA as an amazing military force, and have the SOLE cause of it being Clinton's technology transfer.

[CometBaby]

I have traveled to China several times. I don't know what they have in the way of tanks, planes and arms. Under Mao, I have no doubt that if China had nuclear capability, they would have used it. He had zero respect for human life ... he only respected power. I believe he disrespected the countries that did have nukes, and didn't use them. He probably considered it a weakness.

Things are changing in China. Capitalism is creeping in .. you see it everwhere. All over the streets there are people selling wares they have made themselves. This is a new concept there, and the people have latched on with all their might. This is a real opportunity to escape poverty for them.

Another big change, is the *hold* they have on the people. There was a time when the people of China all just did as they were told .. like robots. Now you see an element of they bucking the rule. This is particularly obvious with the Falun Gong. This is the beginning of insurgence there .. something unheard of under Mao.

I don't think we should be isolating China. We need to get close to them, and send over as many Capitalistic ideas as we can. That is going to be the undoing of China. Once people begin to move out of poverty, you cannot hold them down.

[yooper]

I suggest you contact the former president or Senator Clinton.

[John H K]

Actually, that "China's Military Capabilities Apr 2001" site you posted is quite good...far more balanced than most of the PLA-hype stuff that is posted on FR. I think even they understimate how long it would take the Chinese to put into service an operating CV...2005 is ridiculously optimistic for them...more like 2012, I suspect.

[John H K]

I'm fairly convinced you're going to see an unbelievably ugly and bloody civil war...which China has had repeatedly, almost on a cycle...LONG before the current government creates any sort of a military that can remotely challenge the US. Things are worse for the government now than they were for the Soviet Union in, say, 1980.

There's also a good chance their incredible economic growth statistics are as bogus as Enron's profits.

[fiftymegaton]

From what I gather the only tank they have that has any protection against Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical weapons is the T-72 which they imported from Russia. This tank has a radiation detection system and a NBC filtration system and overpressure system but going by this site's info the Chinese only have about 200 of them at this time(maybe a little more). I may be wrong because they simply dont mention anything about these kinds of capabilites in any of their other tank versions(which means they might have this capability as well).

[John H K]

Regarding your original question, the Chinese ability to fight on a NORMAL battlefield is quite dubious, much less a nuclear one.

When they fought us in Korea, they had hundreds of thousands of battle-hardened veterans of over a decade of fighting the Japanese in World War II, and fighting in the simultaneous Chinese civil war.

We killed most of those guys and the ones that are left are now so old that they're likely passing out of command of the current army.

Their last major war was with India, almost 30 years ago. They won that one.

Their last REAL fighting at all was their "incursion" against Vietnam, in 1979, where they proceeded to get their asses kicked by NVA veterans.
That's over 20 years ago.

So you're looking at one of the least-experienced military forces in the world.

[AdA$tra]

So you're looking at one of the least-experienced military forces in the world.

They appear at first glance Poorly fed, poorly paid, poorly equipped as well. Although they are quite numerous and willing to die at the drop of a hat. I also wouldn't be surprised if they are not better equipped than we realize. Their economy is flush with American cash. More so than any other country. What wasn't given to Clinton as a kickback has been dumped into high tech military gear. Of course China just wants free trade and peace for all the world. So why worry?

[fiftymegaton]

So they beat India some 30 years ago? And now they have nukes and 11,000 tanks and India fighting on two fronts. Thats why was asking about their tank capabilites. If they theoretically can live on a fallout infested battlefield then they can theoretically win on a fallout infested battlefield.

[Slingshot]

Read the book on the internet called "Restricted Warfare" by two Chinese Army Colonels.

It has been translated and posted by CIA.

It may cause sleepless nights and bedwetting.

[Slingshot]

Read the book on the internet called "Restricted Warfare" by two Chinese Army Colonels.

It has been translated and posted by CIA.

It may cause sleepless nights and bedwetting.