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The scourge of celibacy
The Boston Globe Magazine ^ | 3/24/02 | Garry Wills

Posted on 03/27/2002 12:36:14 PM PST by Taliesan

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:07:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The revelations about Boston's pedophile priests had many dismaying aspects beyond their worst aspect, the victimization of the young. One disturbing thing was the way these revelations were greeted by some - as news that was new. There were, of course, new details; but everything disclosed in news reports, including the scale of the offenses, has been discovered before, elsewhere in America or Canada, Ireland or Australia. But after each dismaying explosion of information, people are lulled back into forgetfulness. They are assured that these things, however awful, are mostly in the past, some of them unverified, some exaggerated, and that church officials have already adopted measures to prevent the recurrence of such scandals.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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To: Taliesan
In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation
41 posted on 03/27/2002 1:38:39 PM PST by Salvation
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To: Campion
I attend an Independent Funadmantelist Baptis Church that requires that Ministers not only be married but also have children. Could a single man without children properly minsiter the spirtual needs of a congregation.
42 posted on 03/27/2002 1:38:49 PM PST by Commander8
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To: CasearianDaoist
Pedophilia is being used as an umbrella term at the moment. The problem is sexual disorder.

Celibacy is a different issue. IMO, celibacy is being naively bandied about by an odd coalition of left and right who's target is Rome.

43 posted on 03/27/2002 1:40:35 PM PST by eastsider
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To: Commander8
Could a single man without children properly minsiter the spirtual needs of a congregation.

Jesus? John the Baptist?

44 posted on 03/27/2002 1:42:20 PM PST by monkey
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To: Campion
"Garry Wills is why I no longer give money to Northwestern University, my alma mater. The man has a heavy-duty anti-Catholic agenda."

I finished reading "Papal Sins" a few months ago - what a waste of time and money. Mr. Wills went from one rant to another. I read nothing positive about the Catholic Church.

I wonder about those that call themselves Catholic and profess to love their church and then rip it apart and expect it to change... for them. Why don't they just go off and start a church that is more in line with what they believe to be the truth? How can they love a church that they want to change? What made them love it in the first place?

At the moment I'm reading "Jesuits" by Malachi Martin and I have "Windswept House" on the back burner. I hear both good and bad about Fr. Martin... what is the deal on him? Can I put faith in what he writes about?

45 posted on 03/27/2002 1:43:30 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Owl_Eagle
Celibacy has NOTHING to do with this horrible perversion.

Yeah, right!!! The reason it DOES have something to do with it is that it's NOT voluntary. What if I, a NORMAL person with a NORMAL, G-d given sex-drive, (the overwhelming, vast majority of us), want to serve in the Catholic clergy? Either I don't serve, or if I do, I have to fight this urge 24/7, with no Church-sanctioned relief of any kind, (can't marry), then there is a power keg just waiting to explode. Scripture says, "...but since there is SO MUCH immorality, (pedophilia, molestation, etc), EACH man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:2) Plus, at the other extreme, I can't believe that the requirement of celibacy does not attract homosexuals, or others with unnatural sexual attractions (children). Finally, the FACT that this practice is prescribed NO WHERE in the Bible, which is our guide in all things. With the cult of "infallibility" that is universally accepted within this denomination, you can't convince Catholics of the obvious, even with glaring evidence like the recent Boston catastrophe. With all these molestation scandals, which are ongoing, (nothing new here), the evidence is clear to those will simply acknowledge it: this practice is not only scripturally errant, it's counter-productive, and severely damaging to children.

46 posted on 03/27/2002 1:44:13 PM PST by Malcolm
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To: Taliesan
The real problem here is homosexual priests screwing pre-pubescent and adolescent males. That is 95% plus of the cases. It is a legal problem for the Church to handle. That they haven't, doesn't speak well for their common sense.

Enforce the law, expect maturity from those who enter orders and remove all who break the law or who cannot adhere to a fixed and fierce moral code.

47 posted on 03/27/2002 1:44:16 PM PST by shrinkermd
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To: Commander8
Funadmantelist Baptis Church that requires that Ministers not only be married but also have children.

One problem with married priests that is not addressed is that is would be kind a hard to push the church's position on Birth Control( Not that it is widely followed anyway )I didn't say ABORTION I said Birrth Control
48 posted on 03/27/2002 1:44:50 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Commander8
"Could a single man without children properly minsiter the spirtual needs of a congregation."

I always wonder how a guy with a wife and kids finds the time to properly minister to the spiritual needs of a congregation.

49 posted on 03/27/2002 1:47:05 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Taliesan
OK, I've read the whole article. It the same old Wills routine: the Church needs to be democratic; the Church needs to conform to secular agendas; the Church is a cultural artifact that rightly should reflect the prevailing culture.

Wills's policy for saving the village: burn it.

50 posted on 03/27/2002 1:47:09 PM PST by Romulus
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To: SoothingDave
(think: priestesses).
"Not over my dead body ..." : )
51 posted on 03/27/2002 1:47:16 PM PST by eastsider
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To: american colleen
I always wonder how a guy with a wife and kids finds the time to properly minister to the spiritual needs of a congregation.

And I always wondered how a normal young mature virile male can take a vow of celibacy
52 posted on 03/27/2002 1:52:47 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Taliesan
Another thing you can confirm by reading the whole article is that celibacy is a red herring. Towards the end of the article, he moves smoothly on to the backing ordination of women, typically perceiving the whole question as purely one of power.
53 posted on 03/27/2002 1:53:03 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Commander8
I attend an Independent Funadmantelist Baptis Church that requires that Ministers not only be married but also have children.

So men who are infertile, or whose wives are infertile, aren't welcome at your pulpit? Would you fire your minister if his wife died? How about if his only child died? What delightful Christian charity: "lose your wife or child, and we'll take your job, too." Somehow, I'm certain that that wasn't what St. Paul had in mind.

Could a single man without children properly minsiter the spirtual needs of a congregation.

Jesus and St. Paul were single men without children. You tell me if they could "properly minister to the spiritual needs of a congregation."

54 posted on 03/27/2002 1:53:22 PM PST by Campion
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To: eastsider
No, the problem is homosexual men in religious orders that prey on teenage boys. That is just my point. Let us be honest about it. If you are saying the homosexuality is a sexual disorder then fine - let us deal with that. But do not tell me that 1) homnosexuality is not a disorder and then say that 2) It is some other disorder that is at issue. This is just what I am talking about: dodging the issue. That issue is not pedophilia; it is homosexuality.
55 posted on 03/27/2002 1:53:32 PM PST by CasearianDaoist
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To: Campion
Jesus and St. Paul were single men without children.

Well one was the Son of God and the other a Saint

Kind of a select group
56 posted on 03/27/2002 1:56:09 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Malcolm
Finally, the FACT that this practice is prescribed NO WHERE in the Bible, which is our guide in all things.

So when Jesus spoke of "eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven," what was he talking about? And when he said that anyone who has forsaken wives or children for his sake "will receive a hundredfold," *Mt 19:29), he was just blowing smoke?

If the Bible is your "guide in all things," why does the Bible call the Church the "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tm 3:15)? Why does the Bible say that the authority to teach is passed from one generation of "faithful men" to the next (2 Tm 2:2)? Why does the Bible say that you ought to obey human religious authorities? (Heb 13:17)

57 posted on 03/27/2002 2:01:28 PM PST by Campion
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To: uncbob
We're all called to be saints. In fact, most "independant fundamental Baptists" will tell you that all true Christians are already saints.
58 posted on 03/27/2002 2:02:23 PM PST by Campion
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To: Taliesan
Did you read the article?

I didn't. It sounds too much like a New York Slimes twister.

Just the facts, Ma'am.

59 posted on 03/27/2002 2:06:45 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: Taliesan
Without entering the fray on whether or not the religious should be celibate, let me share something from a slightly different perspective. The idea behind ascetism and celibacy is that one gives up the worldly to focus solely on the spiritual. The Hindu monks practice this also. I was told by a friend of mine who is a celibate Hindu monk, that he did not understand why the Catholic priests were not TAUGHT how to maintain celibacy. In the Eastern spiritual systems as well as mystical Christianity, the soul is viewed as an energy of God and what maintains the life force of the body. (I am oversimplifying here for many reasons) The practice of yoga in the East is not exercise but spiritual practice. The body and the spirit are intricately connected. The Hindu monks teach a certain yogic technique to "put out the fire below". In doing this they are able to convert sexual energy into available spiritual energy and avoid issues of lust and perversion.
60 posted on 03/27/2002 2:07:35 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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