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Read This, It's Spooky, You Be The Judge:
Declaring Independence-The Inside Story, by Matthew Brent Pandel: Excerpts ^ | 3/10/02 | Mom_Grandmother

Posted on 03/09/2002 9:58:48 PM PST by Mom_Grandmother

I stumbled across something that happened 226yrs. ago that was taking place in our government then that could be taking place today that had the hair standing up on my arms, it was spooky reading it. I don't know if you will share my discovery, but I just had to share this story, it hits too close to home to ignore today. See if you can spot the connection! ________________________________________________________

No single act in world history had the miraculous impact of the American Revolution. Although only directly pertaining to two political bodies, the empire of Great Britain and the British American Colonies, the chain of events that American Revolution sparked changed the world forever.

Treasonous Action

Many such as John Dickinson, secondary delegate from Pennsylvania, felt quite differently. In his book, the Radicalism of the American Revolution, Gordon Wood, Ph.D., points out an often remembered and misquoted line spoken by Dickinson, "Where is [our] material affection?" Dickinson spoke this only six hours before the Declaration of Independence was first signed. Therefore, even until (and after) the very end, Dickinson felt American Independence from Great Britian was "treasonous action of the most dispicable kind." Earlier in the debate over independence, Dickinson was not alone in his views.

During the majority of his seating with the congress (and subsequently his moderate period), Judge James Wilson voted time and again with Dickinson. It has even been said that Wilson's appearance wasn't even necessary for the reason that all knew how he would vote on an issue merely by asking how Dickinson would vote. It was not until the final vote was call on the question of "Independence" that Wilson finally strayed from Dickinson.

In his film, 1776, Peter Hunt recreated a dialogue between Dr. Benjamin Franklin, John Dickinson, John Adams and Judge James Wilson:

Secretary: Judge Wilson? [calling for Wilson's vote]

Franklin:There it is Mr. Wilson. It's all up to you now. The whole question of American Independence rests squarely on your shoulders. An entirely new nation, ready to be born or die at birth, all on your sy-so. Which will it be Mr. Wilson? Every map maker in the world is waiting for your decision.

Dickinson:Come now James, nothing has changed. We mustn't let Dr. Franklin create one of his confusions. The question is clear.

Franklin:Most questions are clear when someone else has to decide them.

AdamsIt would be a pity for a man who's handed down hundreds of wise decisions from the bench, to be remembered only for the one unwise decision he made in congress.

Dickinson:James, your keeping everybody waiting!!!

Wilson:Please, don't push me John. I know what you want me to do. But Mr. Adams is correct about one thing. I'm the one who'll be remembered for it.

Dickinson:What do you mean?

Wilson:I'm different from you John. I'm differnet from most of the men here. I don't want to be remembered. I just don't want...the resposibility.

Dickinson:Well, whether you want it or not James, there's no way of avoiding it now.

WilsonNot necessarily John. It I go with them, I'll just be one among dozens. No one will remember the name James Wilson. But if I vote with you, I'll be the man who prevented American Independence. I'm sorry John. I just didn't bargain for that....I'm sorry John, but my vote is "Yea".

On July 4, 1776, the Second Continental Congress, after months of debate and revisions, adopted Virginia Delegate Thomas Jefferson's Declaration. Within two years, all 53 men in the room signed but one, John Dickinson.

The task these men had set before them was dangerous and unfair. These 53 men felt that their families, friends and fellow American Colonists were worth these risks. Although each man came from different backgrounds, different regional locations and had different beliefs, they came together to achieve a better life for Americans. For as Dr. Benjamin Franklin put it best, "We are men: no more, no less."


TOPICS: Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: armchairgeneral; dictator; napoleon; troll
Like I said, the simularities were really spooky. Here is my take on it: George Bush is our leader, at the moment he is looking out for Americans, it's unfair the decisions he has to make and the risks we have to take but he feels America and her people are worth it.

As for John Dickinson, the soul hold-out, well, we all know who he came back as 226 later, he's Tom Daschle.Now wouldn't it be just like the man not to want to sign the Declaration of Independence, just out of spite?

1 posted on 03/09/2002 9:58:48 PM PST by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Two obvious historical errors. The Declaration of Independence was passed on July 2nd, not July 4th. Check the Journal of the Congress for exact day of passage.

More importantly, John Dickenson, who would later serve as President of Delaware and President of Pennsylvania, was a great patriot. He served as President of the Annapolis Convention of 1786.

Never heard of the Annappolis Convention, you say? Only five states sent official delegations, So, it lacked a quorum. But Dickenson assigned Alexander Hamilton to write its final Report. That Report invited all states to send delegations to Philadelphia in May, 1787, the place where the Constitution of the United States was written.

And Dickenson had the wisdom to see that mere amendment of the Articles of Confederation was insufficient. They were fatally flawed. That invitation to all states was to do what is "necessary for the exigencies of the union." By repeating that language, which most states did, they gave their delegations the very power to write the Constitution.

So let's have no more comparing of John Dickenson to Li'l Tommy Dashcle. Dickenson was one of the great patriots who is little known. Do not accept a made-up conversation in a Broadway musical (1776 was a good show, though) as description of how things really happened.

Dashcle is not fit to black the boots of Dickenson, who shares with Sam Houston the distinction of being the only two men who ever served as Governor (President) of two different states.

Congressman Billybob

Last day: "The Un-Music Man"

2 posted on 03/09/2002 10:23:28 PM PST by Congressman Billybob
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To: Congressman Billybob
What you said Congressman. :)

Thanks for the informative lesson.
3 posted on 03/09/2002 10:31:17 PM PST by rpierce
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To: rpierce
Man, do I love America !
4 posted on 03/09/2002 10:40:30 PM PST by america-rules
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To: Congressman Billybob
Look, I didn't write this, if you think you are so smart you will see the Author is "Matthew Brent Pandel, he wrote the book. As for the movie part, he also wrote that part. But as for you telling me who I can, or cannot compare a person too, I'll compare whomever I choose, you do not do my thinking for me. You have your opinion, I have mine. Take your snipity, know it all attitude and go somewhere else.
5 posted on 03/09/2002 10:41:05 PM PST by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Mom_Grandmother
I did not offer any opinion, other than to call Dickinson a "patriot." What I offered was facts, which are readily verifiable. You were misled by using a defective source. This is not uncommon. There are a lot of defective source materials out there.

You should get accustomed to accepting factual corrections with grace. There are a lot of very knowledgable people on FreeRepublic. I've been corrected on my facts more than once. It's one of the virtues of FR.

Chill out, Grandma. (As a Grandpa, I have a right to say that.)

Billybob

6 posted on 03/09/2002 11:09:29 PM PST by Congressman Billybob
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To: Congressman Billybob
Well Grandpa, this is from Grandma, lighen up, this was put here for "fun", check it out. It was not put here for intellects to nit pick. So loosen up and see if there are any simularities. Oh, by the way, any person back then or now that refused to sign the Declaration of Independence for my country could never make it up.

That man John Dickinson could have become a Monk and it would never make up for his stupid refusal for not signing that document. Where would you be today if more had thought like him? I compared him to Daschle because he was a 1776 "obstructionist", period!

7 posted on 03/10/2002 12:44:00 AM PST by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Even the bad politicians in 1776 had the country's best interests in mind. There is no comparing them with any politicians today. The founders would hang over half of today's Congressmen for treason were they around.
8 posted on 03/10/2002 12:57:06 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Congressman Billybob
The original quotation for this thread was correct:

~ The resolution submitted by Richard Henry Lee of Virginia, "that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states," was indeed adopted by the Continental Congress on 2 July 1776.

~ The formal declaration, however, technically the report of a committee (John Adams, Livingston, Sherman, Franklin, and Jefferson), was adopted as amended by the Congress on 4 July 1776, and it included in its closing paragraph the text of the resolution approved two days earlier.

The second act thus subsumed and repeated the first. If you're a stickler for legal effect (as seen, o'course, when the war was won), independence was asserted on 2 July. If the formal case with reasoning is what is important, that was consummated on 4 July.

9 posted on 03/10/2002 1:49:27 AM PST by Greybird
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To: Mom_Grandmother
THANKS!
10 posted on 03/10/2002 2:00:08 AM PST by RAY
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To: Congressman Billybob
Great post Billybob. Thanks.
11 posted on 03/10/2002 4:11:36 AM PST by shrinkermd
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Yeah, Congressman Billybob, how dare you actually try to introduce some intellectuallism into debates. We are here for pure emotionalism and knee-jerk reactions. I have already made up my mind and am only looking for facts that support my beliefs, so don't you dare ask me to think. I don't wanna know nuthin' bout no history here, no siree.
12 posted on 03/10/2002 4:18:39 AM PST by Under the Radar
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To: Congressman Billybob
Why the bold ?
13 posted on 03/10/2002 4:37:39 AM PST by fightu4it
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To: Under the Radar
OK guys, I give. Just thought this story and the simularities at the time were interesting. But your right, we do learn and share a lot here at FreeRepublic and my raction was a knee-jerk one, I'll try to do better.

Most of the time I don't have time to do research on an ariticle to see if it is historically correct, but I'll try to do better. I'm not really a mean person, my mouth sometimes shifts into high-gear before my brain has time to warm up. Thanks Under the Radar. My appologies Grandpa-Billybob

14 posted on 03/10/2002 9:58:22 AM PST by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Sir Gawain
I agree, our politicians today just might have been looking at the other end of a rope in 1776, some of them anyhow.
15 posted on 03/10/2002 10:01:26 AM PST by Mom_Grandmother
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Want to do some fun, light-hearted research? Check out the movie made of the musical "1776"!
16 posted on 03/10/2002 10:06:02 AM PST by Amore
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To: Mom_Grandmother, Congressman Billybob
What a gracious apology, a rarity even here at FR. I hope you accept mine as well, Mom_Grandmother, if anything I said hurt you.
17 posted on 03/11/2002 4:38:50 AM PST by Under the Radar
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Thanks, Grandma,

Any person who has arrived at the station in life to have grandchildren and be proud of that fact, is alright in my book.

The elderly, but still kicking,

Billybob

18 posted on 03/11/2002 5:18:42 AM PST by Congressman Billybob
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To: Mom_Grandmother
Our forefathers were definitely looking at the other end of a rope.

As will we be sooner than anyone expects.

Perhaps we should consider a dry place to store powder, just in case?

DG

19 posted on 03/11/2002 6:42:16 AM PST by DGallandro
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