Curious About Freeper's Views Of Joyce Meyer

onedoug ^ | 12 DEC 2001 | onedoug

[PleaseNoMore]

I was discussing this thread with my own husband last night and he reminded me of the night he accepted Jesus. A lady had come to minister to the women of our group. My husband had the kids and my car battery died ( I left the lights on )so he had to come and jump start the car. While we were gathered to leave ( you know how people stay after meetings and socialize ) she jokingly said something about Jesus jump starting our hearts ( can't remember the exact words of her statement ). My husband, who was within earshot, asked her what she meant by comparing his jump starting my car to Jesus jump starting a man's heart. My husband had long attended a church that wasn't too heavy on the message of salvation. She went on to explain how, like a dead battery receives a charge of life from a good battery our dead spirits become alive by accepting Christ. My analogy is nowhere near as good as hers but she ministered to my husband and he received Christ in the driveway of the prayer group hostess that night. My husband recalled this, with gratefulness, of her willingness to minister to him. I doubt that God holds her ministering to my husband against her.

[PleaseNoMore]

Amazing what you find when you have to look isn't it? :)

Discussions are good in the way that they cause one to dive into the word. Arguments do not do anything to edify anyone! I enjoy passionate discussions of the word of God and not with just likeminded people.

[LaineyDee]

I doubt that God holds her ministering to my husband against her.

Wonderful story! God can use ANYONE, anytime....and no.. I seriously doubt He'll hold it against her! *chuckle*

[PleaseNoMore]

Doctrines are, for the most part, our attempts to explain a reality we are too shallow and limited to explain. Jesus didn't heal the sick and rescue the lost sheep by way of a doctrine. Rather, doctrines arose to better understand the freeing, the healing, the rescuing. Doctrine teaches. It enables us to identify the real from the fake, to understand which way to turn on the many matters of our life that Jesus did not speak on, and to prevent us from simply meandering away from our Shepherd. It frees us to spend our time living the faith instead of pondering the meaning of every little trifle. It gives us confidence to know we can go in a certain direction and not lose our love for God. Most of all, it is a way for each generation of Christians to pass along the most important parts of what they and their forebears learned about the faith over the course of 2000 years of living in it.

But doctrine itself gives no life at all. What gives life is that which the doctrine is about. For instance, what saves you is not a solid doctrine regarding how you were saved, but the actual work of Christ on the cross, from which any solid doctrine of salvation arises. If you get the doctrine right but don't put your life behind it, what good is the doctrine? The Reformers termed that frigida opinio , cold opinion, with which a person may agree with to the last detail but not have it touch them inside. It doesn't put them into action, fire up their passion, or change their attitude toward life. It is very much a dead letter.

Truth is not just something said or communicated or taught. Truth can also be in the doing, flowing out from a specific event in time and space. Truth can be discovered in what happens, and can be supported by other things that happen. Truth can be found not just in thought, but in deeds; not just in doctrine but in action, like the Spirit is in action. This is what happened at Pentecost -- the Spirit made an event of it, things happened, supported by fire and language miracles, and people took action. Through that 'happening' and those actions the truth of Christ was spread. We worship, we serve, we evangelize: we do the truth. When the Spirit is in us, so is Christ; Christ is truth, and so then collectively we embody something of that truth. This is one of the ways the Spirit relates life in Christ to our own lives.

[PleaseNoMore]

Not to be argumentative but, from one believer to another, I think that you may want to look into Hanengraff's background/practices before you decide that he is a proper authority. I came across this info as I decided to reread some of his work.

CRI's Family Publicly Denounce Hank Hanegraaff

CRI-Hank Hanegraaff Lawsuit

It appears that Hank doesn't exactly live what he preaches. "By their fruits ye shall know them ".

[homeschool mama]

Thank you for the links. Past 1996 no action has been taken in the cases against Hank..did they find just cause to continue. It doesn't appear to be so. If he *is* guilty then he'll certainly answer to it before our Lord if not on earth.

Shall we now delve into the private and professional life of Joyce Meyer? Many tidbits have been brought up, including her non Biblical teaching derived from actual tapes. I'm wondering about her teaching *over* men...about her jewelry, her home, her cars, her house help....Has she fully disclosed where the $ goes from her ministry?

Many points have been brought up on this thread we can take time to digest and pray about. I doubt very much we'll come to agreement on the issue of Hank or Joyce. Perhaps it's best we agree to disagree and allow the Holy Spirit to work in our hearts.

[week 71]

I'm sorry but those links are ridiculous. What BLATANT gossip and murmuring!! I've read Hank's books and he references everything, provides tapes to hear what preachers have said. Nothing like "so and so alleges..." or "there was a secret meeting and...." . Bickering within churches and Christian organizations has been with us for years, and it will continue. It s one of Satan's tricks. Now I do not agree with everything Hanagraff teaches but it is not that sloppy murmuring. He just a man and may be he will mess up big someday, but the foolishness of those articles is transparent.

[PleaseNoMore]

Really, my post about Hank was not meant to stir the pot. I went to the CRI website before I found the info on him and immediately "saw" more ads for his work than I did helpful information.

I think that the notion of Meyer teaching over men is preposterous. Meyer's ministry has always been a ministry to women. As for her home, jewelry, house help I can't answer to that. I have "house help", a nice home, and nice jewelry. I don't think that makes me a sinner. I can afford these things only by God's blessings.

I agree that we may not agree and do not presume to judge you because your opinion differs from mine.

[PleaseNoMore]

Gossip? Murmuring? These are facts about Hanegraaff that be easily proven or disproven with a phone call or check of court records ( the lawsuit ). See Week, we can all find something disgraceful about those we don't agree with. Such a shame, that instead of letting God use who He chooses to use to minister to His people, that we try to belittle them because of their "sins". I am thankful that God's memory is shorter than man's and that He no longer holds our repented sins against us.

[PleaseNoMore]

Yes, Meyer teaches that you can lose your salvation. It is biblical. Eternal security or "once saved always saved" is not scriptural teaching.

[week 71]

All I'm saying is they were lawsuits that were dropped. And the articles repeatedly mentioned some closed door meeting. The next article reads.. and the man alleges. This stuff has been tearing down people, well since Adam and Eve. People have leveled "allegations" throughout history. In fact Jesus even tells us not to sue your brothers and sisters. Gossip just burns me up. Now I've looked at most of your posts with interest, and this is not an attack on you, but one cannot convince me that those articles aren't just a load of Gossip.

If one wants to debate Hanks ideas, quote the source and let the discussion begin. Or if Hanagraff was convicted of something, site the court case and Christians would be wise to take not of convicted felons. But bringing up allegations is... well I don't know, I need to cool off.

[Matchett-PI]

"I doubt that God holds her ministering to my husband against her."

What does that have to do with the subject????

The subject is the question of whether or not God placed women in headship/overseer position over men in the home or in the church. He didn't.

Puuuuuuuuuuleeeeeeeeeeze.

[PleaseNoMore]

I heartly agree with you. We are so busy tearing one another down instead of building one another up. A point that I have mentioned several times in this thread is that we can ( and always do ) find a website that either supports what we believe or tears down what another believes.

The whole discussion ensued when someone asked for another's opinion of Joyce Meyer. Opinion. Meyer's ministry is a ministry for women. She teaches women practicality to apply in their everyday lives. All of a sudden this woman teacher is out of God's will. Has God specifically told others that she is out of His will? I mean, here is a woman who has a mistry for women. She is not a pastor of a church. She is not in leadership over a male congregation. Yet, she is out of God's will because she ministers to women. I would venture a guess that those who have cast Meryer in this light have never heard her messages. I mean really heard her ( follwed along with Bible in hand ). Comments were then posted revealing others who had taken parts of her books, teachings, tapes or what have you and torn them apart citing her as a false teacher. Well anyone can do that to someone to prove their point. One could take Jesus' statements out of context and present Him as a false teacher.

[PleaseNoMore]

And it was determined long ago that Joyce Meyer was not a pastor and that her ministry is for women.

Actually the subject was Freeper's opinions of Joyce Meyer. It eveolved into the topic of whether or not God placed women in headship/overseer position over men in the home or in the church. No one has argued that He did.

[Matchett-PI]

"These are facts about Hanegraaff ...."

When did "Hanegraaff" become the subject???

Forget the messenger. "The message" is the subject.

Did God place women in a headship/lordship/overseer position over men or not? That is the subject.

[PleaseNoMore]

See #656. I believe that should answer your question.

[nicmarlo]

. . . you can lose your salvation. It is biblical. Eternal security or "once saved always saved" is not scriptural teaching.

I believe, to the contrary, that salvation received is eternal. To believe otherwise means that somehow a mortal has a stronger power than does God to keep you. How does the creation have stronger power than the Creator? What can "man" do to take himself out of God's hand, force the Holy Spirit out of his life, and overpower Jesus' death on the cross and forgiveness of ALL sins? When Christ died on the cross, He did not die for some sins, nor did He die only for sins to be committed prior to an individual's salvation, but all. Christ's death predated my birth by 2,000 years. What sin could I commit, that He decided to exclude from the cross? None. He died for ALL my sins.

Yes, we may quench the Holy Spirit, we may not follow God's ways, and we may ignore Jesus---but this would only be for a "time." All that we do after salvation, if it is to the flesh, those works will burn away, if it is to God, those shall be purified. What is left determines our reward in heaven, not whether we go to heaven. But as Paul said, because we are no longer under the law, we are not free to practice sin. The Holy Spirit will continue to convict the person who, being saved but having "fallen away" from what God wants in their life, does not do according to the will of the Father. Jesus said our salvation is eternal:

John 10: (27) [Jesus said:] ""My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (29) "" My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6: (37) [Jesus said:] ""All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. (39) ""This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

1 John 5: (12) He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5: (24) ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus also said that once we are saved, the Father has set his seal upon us. This is a mark of ownership. We are His, eternally:

John 6: (26) Jesus answered them and said, ""Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. (27) ""Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.''

2 Corinthians 1: (21) Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, (22) who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 4: (29) Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (30) Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God looks at what we do in our walk in Christ. That which is not done in the Spirit, does not last, but does not take away our salvation, it takes away our reward:

1 Corinthians 3: (14) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. (15) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Knowing that we have been sealed by the Father, with the Holy Spirit, we now have confidence before God:

Hebrews 10: (18) Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. (19) Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, (20) by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh. . . .

[nicmarlo]

In relation to Joyce Meyer, if she believes that salvation can be lost (which I have not heard her say, but I believe you that she says this, in that I do not watch her every day, but often), I still appreciate her ministry to women. She has much to say from which I have learned to apply with practicality in my life. None of us can agree on all things. There is much I can learn from her despite what our differing views are on eternal security. (And the same applies with you and any other Christian.)

BTW, thank you for sharing your story about your husband and the battery incident. It always is a joy to see how God is at work in each of our lives.