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To: Viva La Homeschool
Yes, Meyer teaches that you can lose your salvation. It is biblical. Eternal security or "once saved always saved" is not scriptural teaching.
652 posted on 01/05/2002 6:03:15 AM PST by PleaseNoMore
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To: PleaseNoMore
. . . you can lose your salvation. It is biblical. Eternal security or "once saved always saved" is not scriptural teaching.

I believe, to the contrary, that salvation received is eternal. To believe otherwise means that somehow a mortal has a stronger power than does God to keep you. How does the creation have stronger power than the Creator? What can "man" do to take himself out of God's hand, force the Holy Spirit out of his life, and overpower Jesus' death on the cross and forgiveness of ALL sins? When Christ died on the cross, He did not die for some sins, nor did He die only for sins to be committed prior to an individual's salvation, but all. Christ's death predated my birth by 2,000 years. What sin could I commit, that He decided to exclude from the cross? None. He died for ALL my sins.

Yes, we may quench the Holy Spirit, we may not follow God's ways, and we may ignore Jesus---but this would only be for a "time." All that we do after salvation, if it is to the flesh, those works will burn away, if it is to God, those shall be purified. What is left determines our reward in heaven, not whether we go to heaven. But as Paul said, because we are no longer under the law, we are not free to practice sin. The Holy Spirit will continue to convict the person who, being saved but having "fallen away" from what God wants in their life, does not do according to the will of the Father. Jesus said our salvation is eternal:

John 10: (27) [Jesus said:] ""My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (29) "" My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6: (37) [Jesus said:] ""All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. (39) ""This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

1 John 5: (12) He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5: (24) ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus also said that once we are saved, the Father has set his seal upon us. This is a mark of ownership. We are His, eternally:

John 6: (26) Jesus answered them and said, ""Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. (27) ""Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.''

2 Corinthians 1: (21) Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, (22) who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 4: (29) Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (30) Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God looks at what we do in our walk in Christ. That which is not done in the Spirit, does not last, but does not take away our salvation, it takes away our reward:

1 Corinthians 3: (14) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. (15) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Knowing that we have been sealed by the Father, with the Holy Spirit, we now have confidence before God:

Hebrews 10: (18) Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. (19) Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, (20) by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh. . . .


659 posted on 01/05/2002 7:33:35 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: PleaseNoMore
In relation to Joyce Meyer, if she believes that salvation can be lost (which I have not heard her say, but I believe you that she says this, in that I do not watch her every day, but often), I still appreciate her ministry to women. She has much to say from which I have learned to apply with practicality in my life. None of us can agree on all things. There is much I can learn from her despite what our differing views are on eternal security. (And the same applies with you and any other Christian.)

BTW, thank you for sharing your story about your husband and the battery incident. It always is a joy to see how God is at work in each of our lives.

660 posted on 01/05/2002 7:43:13 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: PleaseNoMore
If we can lose our salvation because of something we do, then we must get our salvation back by doing something else. This would be working for our salvation, adding to what Christ has already done on the cross. If, however, Christ has done it all, and we are "in Him," He has done all and paid all. Paul writes, at length, about condemnation, justification, and sanctification, and the confidence we received through our faith in Jesus. The only time Christ mentions that one can commit an unforgiveable sin is if one blasphemes the Holy Spirit. Jesus said:
Mark 3:29 "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.''

Luke 12:10 "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him."

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 4: (3) For what does the Scripture say? ""ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.'' (4) Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. (5) But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. . . .

Romans 3: (20) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. (21) But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, (22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; (23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (24) being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; (25) whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; (26) for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (27) Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. (28) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.. . . (31) Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 5:(1) Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (2) through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. (3) And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; (4) and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; (5) and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (6) For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. (7) For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. (8) But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (10) For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. (11) And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,through whom we have now received the reconciliation. (12) Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned (13) for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (15) But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. (16) The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. (17) For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. (18) So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. (19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. (20) The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, (21) so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 8:

(1) Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. (3) For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, (4) so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (5) For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. (6) For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, (7) because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, (8) and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (10) If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (12) So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh (13) for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (14) For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (15) For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!'' (16) The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, (17) and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. . . . (28) And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (29) For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; (30) and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (31) What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? (32) He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? (33) Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; (34) who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. (35) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) Just as it is written, "" FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.'' (37) But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. (38) For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, (39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


662 posted on 01/05/2002 8:53:15 AM PST by nicmarlo
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