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To: PleaseNoMore
. . . you can lose your salvation. It is biblical. Eternal security or "once saved always saved" is not scriptural teaching.

I believe, to the contrary, that salvation received is eternal. To believe otherwise means that somehow a mortal has a stronger power than does God to keep you. How does the creation have stronger power than the Creator? What can "man" do to take himself out of God's hand, force the Holy Spirit out of his life, and overpower Jesus' death on the cross and forgiveness of ALL sins? When Christ died on the cross, He did not die for some sins, nor did He die only for sins to be committed prior to an individual's salvation, but all. Christ's death predated my birth by 2,000 years. What sin could I commit, that He decided to exclude from the cross? None. He died for ALL my sins.

Yes, we may quench the Holy Spirit, we may not follow God's ways, and we may ignore Jesus---but this would only be for a "time." All that we do after salvation, if it is to the flesh, those works will burn away, if it is to God, those shall be purified. What is left determines our reward in heaven, not whether we go to heaven. But as Paul said, because we are no longer under the law, we are not free to practice sin. The Holy Spirit will continue to convict the person who, being saved but having "fallen away" from what God wants in their life, does not do according to the will of the Father. Jesus said our salvation is eternal:

John 10: (27) [Jesus said:] ""My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (29) "" My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6: (37) [Jesus said:] ""All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. (39) ""This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

1 John 5: (12) He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5: (24) ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus also said that once we are saved, the Father has set his seal upon us. This is a mark of ownership. We are His, eternally:

John 6: (26) Jesus answered them and said, ""Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. (27) ""Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.''

2 Corinthians 1: (21) Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, (22) who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 4: (29) Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (30) Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God looks at what we do in our walk in Christ. That which is not done in the Spirit, does not last, but does not take away our salvation, it takes away our reward:

1 Corinthians 3: (14) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. (15) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Knowing that we have been sealed by the Father, with the Holy Spirit, we now have confidence before God:

Hebrews 10: (18) Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. (19) Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, (20) by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh. . . .


659 posted on 01/05/2002 7:33:35 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
I believe that with salvation comes also a responsibility to the faith. I don't mean that we are saved by works. I do not believe that. I believe that, as Jesus said, much is required from those to whom much is given and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.

I don't dare take from the fact that what Christ did on the cross was all that was necessary for our salvation. In no way shape or form do I mean to imply that. If all He ever did was die for me that was enough. But He did so much more. I think my problem with the doctrine is that many people use the "once saved always saved doctrine as a license to sin. When I say sin, I am not talking about lying, stealing, murdering, and all of the other things we "KNOW" to be wrong. I mean the sins of pride, judgementalism, legalism, and so forth.

I also have a strong disbelief in the doctrine within this doctrine that once you are saved you can't change your mind or that you can't fall from the faith. This is clearly an unbiblical doctrine. In the OT and NT we are told that one can depart from the faith and given many examples of this happening through scripture.

664 posted on 01/05/2002 9:42:09 AM PST by PleaseNoMore
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