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Men Must Champion Feminine Women
Toogood Reports ^ | December 5, 2001 | Henry Makow Ph.D.

Posted on 12/05/2001 7:22:16 AM PST by Starmaker

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To: Gumption
Yes I understand what you are saying. The pictures here are not of the level of Playboy. But do you feel they are necessary to the discussion at hand? Do you feel the comments that follow add to the debate? I clicked on a thread about racism and poof...in pops pics of boodilicous Destiniy's Child. No, the pictures weren't pornographic by Playboy standards, but they weren't relevant to the subject of racism. I guess someone else agreed they weren't sexual enough so on the next page they posted this one. I did what you suggested and left the thread because I'd had enough....not of the debate but of the accessories (grin)

Please understand, this isn't about FR or free speech or even the poor men who get there jollies flashing pics like this. My confusion lays in why men who say they want X sort of woman tolerate this behavior, (which I deem is the giggle factor), in mixed company at a place that is designed for more serious pursuits.

It feels very much like the scenerio I described in my quiz, except that as I wander from room to room, I keep running into guys flashing pics for the thrill of it and no one seems to mind. No man does what half the men I asked said was the appropriate response.

Now relate this to the subject of this thread.....that a woman should make a home that is valuable and inviting to a man. Should not the man at least try and make a society that is valuable and inviting to a woman? I'd think it would be hard to remain feminine in a world where you had to grow such a tough skin to sheild yourselve from the lewd and crude. Men cry for pre sixties women yet seem not to make the connection between the changes in the women and the changes in the world they must exist in.

Now it's my turn to ask if I'm making any sense.

181 posted on 12/05/2001 2:22:14 PM PST by the_tisha_girl
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To: Starmaker
I agree with all of this, yet I'm still single. Why? Because the men I know would rather have an exotic supermodel then someone less than perfect with decent values.

If guys want to change society back, they're going to have to go after women like me.

182 posted on 12/05/2001 2:24:30 PM PST by Hawkeye's Girl
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To: susangirl
Hi, angel! What are you doing here? Like you need this thread. You have freepmail.
183 posted on 12/05/2001 2:25:31 PM PST by imus63
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To: the_tisha_girl
#78 Suddenly, a man whips out playboy and starts showing the pictures and making the type of comments playboy pictures usually evoke. What do you do and why? Thanks for playing along!

Watch what they do, not what they say they would do. This thead demonstrates how some men would really behave in your scenario: Teen testifies he was totally teacher's pet. Take notes. I did. Some of the responses changed my perceptions of those involved.

Real women want real men. Arrested development at the giggling locker room stage of euphemisms for female anatomy is so unattractive.

184 posted on 12/05/2001 2:30:51 PM PST by lonevoice
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Comment #185 Removed by Moderator

To: innocentbystander; the_tisha_girl
"Men who love their woman would have no problem taking a bullet, fighting a shark,
standing between them and a knife, you name it."

And treating them as an equal and always willing to defend their honor by thought, word and deed.
Cherish the love they give, for love is the most important gift of all.
And to thank them for all they do. Especially the "small" things.
"Do unto others...."
186 posted on 12/05/2001 2:34:27 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: the_tisha_girl
Should not the man at least try and make a society that is valuable and inviting to a woman? I'd think it would be hard to remain feminine in a world where you had to grow such a tough skin to sheild yourselve from the lewd and crude.

You are absolutely correct, but your ideas won't get much mileage here on FR. Not too many men here realize that a culture saturated in female sexual imagery is not likely to produce the kind of women they want for wives. And it is completely illogical to expect that you can sleep with as many women as you want, and then be able to find a faithful, dedicated wife. (Where are all those women going to come from, anyway?)

I tried to point this out on a thread a few days ago, and was hammered for my "anti-man" comments.

187 posted on 12/05/2001 2:49:07 PM PST by independentmind
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To: innocentbystander
Does that leadship also include leading other men into creating a society that is more welcoming to women? Must it be sharks to fight and not crude behavior? Cannot this protection extend to women other than their mate?

The article says a woman should not confuse her priorities. That if she focuses on a career, she developes different skills and attitudes that may not serve her well in the job of wife and mother. I'm wondering if perhaps it extends beyond that statement, beyond the workplace and into society itself. How does a women maintain her femininity in a world that seems to demand she tough it out, get used to it, get over it or leave.

I think there is a distiction between being hard and being strong. Women can be either or both. Men seem to value 'strong' but don't want 'hard' yet they don't seem to be willing to fight the battles that would maintain a society in which a woman need not harden herself. I have enjoyed this and will come back to it and read all the posts, but right now I have to finish the venison stew that I have been working on. Beleive it or not I did shoot the deer. I would have rather my husband had been here to drag it back and gut it though. (grin).

188 posted on 12/05/2001 2:52:55 PM PST by the_tisha_girl
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To: independentmind
Good point. So, let's kick X-rated theatres and bookstores out of every city in America, and celebrate decent women who want to love and cherish decent men.
189 posted on 12/05/2001 2:56:30 PM PST by Dr. Octagon
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Comment #190 Removed by Moderator

To: Starmaker
We have pursued the busy, neurotic, overachievers who guarantee us heartbreak, divorce and broken family.

Speak for yourself. I have been very happily married to a busy, neurotic, overachiever for 21 years, 5 months, and counting.

191 posted on 12/05/2001 2:59:48 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian
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To: Thisiswhoweare
I worked for many years to help pay for a business my husband was buying. Once that note was paid, we decided I could quit working outside our home and be a full time homemaker! Like you, I heard comments often of "don't you work?"....

I think times have changed a bit, or perhaps my reaction has changed. Lately I more often hear, "You are so lucky to be a stay-at-home Mom".....

It wasn't so much luck, as planning. And I feel fortunate that I am able to have as my number one priority, my family and home.

But, even if a woman works, her home should be a refuge - a place where her family wants to be and feels safe and loved. That "refuge" has always been my goal....and the relationship my children have with their Father and I shows this very well.

192 posted on 12/05/2001 3:08:09 PM PST by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
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To: innocentbystander
OK...stew is safe. (grin)

I'm sorry I missed this before. What do I want....

I want to walk from my car to the grocery without having some guy hoot and grab his crotch. I don't want to stand in front of the mirror and practice looking tough, practice flipping the bird with conviction as had been recommended by a friend.

I want to be able to remain feminine I guess. It's not like there is a switch that you can turn off and on. Well, that's not totally true, but the more you use that switch, the more often you have to turn off the woman in you, the harder it gets to turn it back on I guess.

Men who want a feminine women need to think about what there is about this society than creates the opposite.

193 posted on 12/05/2001 4:00:46 PM PST by the_tisha_girl
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
I like your post! :)
194 posted on 12/05/2001 4:08:09 PM PST by SusanUSA
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To: JasonC
Come live in Ireland. The average house price is somewhere in the region of £120,000. That's for a semi-detached modest three bedroomed home.

It takes TWO incomes to finance a mortgage of that size, because the average wage is in or around £20,000. I happen to earn more than that. But if I fall in love with a guy earning less money than me, I'd marry him, if he is the `right' guy. But I would like to have a roof over the heads of my 'potential' children. So why shouldn't I work to do that.

Your argument is void. You are thinking black and white. There are so many grey areas here.

My father lost his job during the recession years in Ireland. My mother (god rest her soul) scrubbed floors the length and breadth of this town to make sure my brother and I got on. Both of us, are now, through her efforts, both fully qualified professional people.

Yeah, my Mam could have stayed at home and brushed my hair and stuff. But she went out and did what had to be done to make sure that her kids, had what she didn't have...a damn good education.

You trying to intimate that MY MOTHER wasn't a lady for doin' that? Damn sure she was. The classiest woman you would ever meet!

So, no! I make no apologies for saying that the sweeping generalisations in the posted article are nothing but...as they say in Ireland...horseshite! (oops, not a very ladylike word...but then, you wouldn't expect anything better from me, would ye?!)

195 posted on 12/05/2001 4:09:52 PM PST by Happygal
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Comment #196 Removed by Moderator

To: Starmaker; Snow Bunny; COB1; LadyX
This is my idea of total femininity...

She is beautiful, intelligent, supportive, enticing, warm & fuzzy, AND patriotic!! Every man should be as lucky as Fall Guy!!

Snow Bunny IS femininty!!

By the way, she has this awesome alter ego too...

You are the best, Snow Bunny!

Semper Fidelis,
Norb

197 posted on 12/05/2001 4:11:34 PM PST by Norb2569
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To: Starmaker
A feminine woman has the effect of a sunrise on a man's soul.

That may well be the most unbelievably incredible thing I have ever read.

198 posted on 12/05/2001 4:15:41 PM PST by riley1992
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To: Hawkeye's Girl
I agree with all of this, yet I'm still single. Why? Because the men I know would rather have an exotic supermodel then someone less than perfect with decent values.

If guys want to change society back, they're going to have to go after women like me.

I don't think I've seen you, but the most beautiful woman in the world, with whom I fell in love, would not have come close to making any 'supermodel' lists. You can see a photo on my profile page. I miss her.

199 posted on 12/05/2001 4:21:01 PM PST by supercat
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To: Happygal
In the U.S., we kill a million unborn children a year, have two million divorces annually, a quarter of all children are born out of wedlock, half don't have two parents, only a quarter have a parent at home when growing up. And we are the richest society in the history of the world. Sugarcoat it anyway you like, it is a running scandal. Working out of necessity, to avoid the streets, is not the same thing as half the society putting wealth ahead of family, which is exactly what is going on. Try denouncing patriarchy to a privileged, college age young woman who has never seen her father. It doesn't go very far.
200 posted on 12/05/2001 4:23:27 PM PST by JasonC
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