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Their more liberal cousins bandy the term around like a standard preposition, but it doesn't get applied to those who really do the same things the Nazis did, such as the medical experimentation.

So now all medical experimentation is off-limits, just because Nazis did evil medical experiments? That's like calling Boy Scout camps reminders of Nazis, because after all, they built camps, too.

I find this priest to be disingenuous. His grounds for comparing this experiment to the Nazis is based on the fact that the embryo was destroyed. Well, aside from the fact that none of the other of the millions of embryos being destroyed each year seemed to merit his individual attention, my suspicion is that if this particular embryo had been carried successfully to term, his outrage (and everyone else's) would have been all the greater.

It's the cloning technique, much more than the final disposition of the embryo, that offends his sensibilities. When he says, "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life," I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

So now all medical experimentation is off-limits, just because Nazis did evil medical experiments? That's like calling Boy Scout camps reminders of Nazis, because after all, they built camps, too.

A bit of a straw man don’t you think? When I said “the same things the Nazis did, such as the medical experimentation” I was not referring to “all medical experimentation.” I was specifically referring to the medical experimentation the Nazis did (“things the Nazis did”).

In case you find that difficult to understand, let me be clear. All medical experimentation is not off limits, nor is all medical experimentation immoral in my view. On the other hand, medical experimentation which destroys a human life (generally one that the experimenter considers sub-human) merely for the sake and convenience of the research is immoral and Nazi like.

I find this priest to be disingenuous.

Given your straw man I found you disingenuous. I guess that makes you even.

When he says, "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life," I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

What on earth do you base that on? That you can’t understand how someone could hold such a view? I can assure you there are indeed people who believe this. The generally orthodox Catholic view is that the child receives its soul from God at the moment of its conception, and thus has its full human dignity at this point. I fully believe that, and have no doubt the priest does as well.

You have little basis for your accusation. The only one I can think of, and you would have to be the one to decide if its accurate or not, is that you haven’t had a lot of exposure to those of us who think this way. While you can disagree all you like it is probably not reasonable for you to assume you know this priest believes or does not believe.

patent +AMDG

Well, aside from the fact that none of the other of the millions of embryos being destroyed each year seemed to merit his individual attention, my suspicion is that if this particular embryo had been carried successfully to term, his outrage (and everyone else's) would have been all the greater.

Sadly, since the statement is in regard to this embryo, and there is a great number represented on FR, who value all human life and argue for its Natural completion from birth to the grave, I find that your statement, Physicist (a FReeper I really respect), to be disingenuous in the extreme!

None of us know what the result would have been -- but those of us who choose to value ALL human life, and feel the outrage and violation of Natural Law here in this particular set of announcements denouncing this new affront to LIFE ... through the "creation of human life" ... as well as the cavalier disposal of this human life -- to be a single item for our address.

This scientist and his company and others have begun, in earnest, the natural precursor to more rampant destruction of Human Life.

Perhaps we MAY be treating this as a huge issue (which it is for us), but surely from any point of view you can understand how we are offended by this experiment with life and how we must view it as just another step toward the further degradation of all life, of God's Law and Natural Law (one and the same).

This is NOT a separate issue, but another phase of the same issue ... the sanctity of LIFE.

This gross experiment further proves the reproductivity of cells -- thereby supporting the ongoing and successful exploration of already born ... stem cell research.

Since I have a grandchild who is alive because of a bone marrow donation (stem cell) from an unknown adult donor ... I won't even answer any "reasoned need" argument for "build and destroy" -- or "create to kill".

Sorry, Physicist, I usually respect your opinion, but you are off base here. The "final disposition" as you put it has no bearing. The point is that we are not to treat human beings (even in embryo form) as our playthings. Period. It is ghastly. It is experimenting with human life. Without the permission of the human subject.

Cardinal Trujillo affirmed that "the therapeutic intent does not change the fact that this is about the production of embryos who will be destroyed."

When you state in post 14 that the Cardinal is "disengenuous" and that you don't believe that he believes what he is saying, I'm afraid I'm lost as to the reasoning behind this opinion.

All Catholic clergy spend every waking minute trying to stem the tide of merciless and brutal murder of the unborn. I find all of his comments regarding the abomination of cloning and the end result that is murder to be entirely within the context of his beliefs.

so now all medical experimentation is off-limits because the nazis did evil medical experiments?

i don't know how you came to this conclusion. the issue at hand is cloning.

hitler was trying to create a master race and purify his territories through genocide, involving the killing of innocent people. people that want to clone are in a sense trying to create a master race in that they want to perpetuate themselves. they can also be involved in genocide, the killing of embryos.

the bible outlaws cloning as a way to make humans. please read genesis with special attention to chapter 4 vs 1 and 2. also, embryos are alive, please read job where, when lamenting life, he wished he had been killed before he was born. there must be life before there can be a death.

of course, we have all of the ethical questions about what we are creating, and all the theological questions. is a clone a human being? does it have a soul? will it be a mass of human cells, but lacking a conscience, or morals?

i certainly do not want to be an alarmist, but let's just say that these cloned beings do not have human values and want to destroy humans. how will we know who they are? how will we stop them? sort of like an al-qaeda cell in the united states, except they look like you and me!