Human Cloning a Reminder of Nazis, Says Orthodox

Zenit ^ | 28-Nov-2001 | ZENIT.org News Agency

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28-Nov-2001 -- ZENIT.org News Agency
ZENIT material may not be reproduced without permission. Permission can be requested at info@zenit.org

HUMAN CLONING A REMINDER OF NAZIS, SAYS ORTHODOX

Reaction to U.S. Company´s Announcement

ROME, (Zenit.org).- The human cloning experiment announced in the United States brings to mind the "crimes against humanity of a Nazi brand," says an Orthodox Church leader.

"The destruction of an embryo is equivalent to an abortion, in other words, a homicide," said Father Antoni Ilin, a spokesman for the Orthodox Patriarchate of Moscow.

"We condemn human cloning, whether for therapeutic or reproductive ends," he said. "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life. So-called therapeutic cloning is nothing other than the worst instrumentalization of a human being, sacrificed for the benefit of others."

On Sunday, a U.S. firm, Advanced Cell Technology, announced it had cloned an embryonic human being but later destroyed it.

For its part, the Union of Muslim Communities in Italy stated: "We simply and absolutely condemn any attempt to modify or imitate creation."

"Even if they say that they do not intend reproductive but therapeutic cloning, they are sorcerer´s apprentices who don´t know where they will end up," the secretary of the Union, Roberto Hamza, said. "It is a defiance against God that will lead to grave disasters."

The new chief rabbi of Rome, physician Riccardo Di Segni, commented that he was following very closely "all progress related to procreation techniques and the possible applications in the human realm. Anguishing scenarios emerge, which are difficult to control and, therefore, extreme caution is necessary."

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28-Nov-2001 -- EWTN News Brief

CARDINAL SAYS GOOD INTENT DOES NOT NULLIFY EVIL OF CLONING

VATICAN, (CWNews.com) - That human cloning research is pursued to find cures for diseases and ailments does not reduce the immorality of the act of manufacturing human beings, said Cardinal Alfonso Trujillo, the president of the Pontifical Council for the Family.

"The production of a human being by the means of cloning is contrary to human dignity and the dignity of procreation that God entrusted to the union of a man and a woman," the cardinal told the Italian newspaper Corriere della Serra on Tuesday. He stressed that it is necessary to continue research for medical treatments which do not result in the destruction of embryos.

The cardinal's comments came a day after a US-based company announced that it had successfully cloned a human being in the laboratory and that it had subsequently killed the embryonic unborn child.

Cardinal Trujillo affirmed that "the therapeutic intent does not change the fact that this is about the production of embryos who will be destroyed." He added that he is not opposed to all research, but only that which results in "the production and the destruction of embryos, because that constitutes a cruel process with respect to the human being."

The cardinal added that it is up to "the governments, the parliaments, the United Nations to intervene" to outlaw cloning. "Many countries have already expressed their reservations. A law which prohibits cloning was approved in the United States by the House of Representatives and is currently before the Senate," he said.

"The UN should consider that the current lack of regulation becomes a serious threat to the common good of humanity and we can only encourage the proposals to regulate this process," concluded the cardinal.

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Bumping. Let me know if you want on or off the list. Click my screen name for a description.

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[Aquinasfan]

a US-based company announced that it had successfully cloned a human being in the laboratory and that it had subsequently killed the embryonic unborn child.

Heartwarming.

[ArrogantBustard]

subsequently killed the embryonic unborn

He was inconvenient. If you are less than 9 months old, being inconvenient is a capital offense.

AB

[Romulus]

Mighty disappointing to see the chief rabbi lagging badly behind the Muslims in the condemnation of grotesque human experimentation and systematic killing. I'd have expected them to be out front in naming this neo-nazi stuff for what it is. Mighty disappointing.

[choirboy]

Bravo for Father Ilin!

[latrans]

Then is Bayer expecting to get in on it?

[FormerLib]

Orthodox ping.

[Claud]

God bless Father Antoni. How badly we need our Eastern "lung" back again!

[dansangel]

"We condemn human cloning, whether for therapeutic or reproductive ends," he said. "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life...

Yet the "embryo" (convenient verbiage to de-humanize life) was discarded immediately. Could it be that what they created turned out to be an abomination and they sought to cover it up?

Creating life is in God's capable hands. When that life should end is also up to God's will. We need to stop using "science" and a "woman's right" as veils to hide behind when in reality we are intervening into a realm in which we do not belong.

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>>>Mighty disappointing to see the chief rabbi lagging badly behind the Muslims in the condemnation of grotesque human experimentation and systematic killing. I'd have expected them to be out front in naming this neo-nazi stuff for what it is.

It sometimes seems that the term Nazi has been so overused that certain Jews have become hesitant to use the term when it really applies. Their more liberal cousins bandy the term around like a standard preposition, but it doesn't get applied to those who really do the same things the Nazis did, such as the medical experimentation.

Strange world.

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[onyx]

BTTT for Orthodox Jews and Catholics --- No CLONING whatsoever!

[Physicist]

Their more liberal cousins bandy the term around like a standard preposition, but it doesn't get applied to those who really do the same things the Nazis did, such as the medical experimentation.

So now all medical experimentation is off-limits, just because Nazis did evil medical experiments? That's like calling Boy Scout camps reminders of Nazis, because after all, they built camps, too.

I find this priest to be disingenuous. His grounds for comparing this experiment to the Nazis is based on the fact that the embryo was destroyed. Well, aside from the fact that none of the other of the millions of embryos being destroyed each year seemed to merit his individual attention, my suspicion is that if this particular embryo had been carried successfully to term, his outrage (and everyone else's) would have been all the greater.

It's the cloning technique, much more than the final disposition of the embryo, that offends his sensibilities. When he says, "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life," I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

[patent]

So now all medical experimentation is off-limits, just because Nazis did evil medical experiments? That's like calling Boy Scout camps reminders of Nazis, because after all, they built camps, too.

A bit of a straw man don’t you think? When I said “the same things the Nazis did, such as the medical experimentation” I was not referring to “all medical experimentation.” I was specifically referring to the medical experimentation the Nazis did (“things the Nazis did”).

In case you find that difficult to understand, let me be clear. All medical experimentation is not off limits, nor is all medical experimentation immoral in my view. On the other hand, medical experimentation which destroys a human life (generally one that the experimenter considers sub-human) merely for the sake and convenience of the research is immoral and Nazi like.

I find this priest to be disingenuous.

Given your straw man I found you disingenuous. I guess that makes you even.

When he says, "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life," I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

What on earth do you base that on? That you can’t understand how someone could hold such a view? I can assure you there are indeed people who believe this. The generally orthodox Catholic view is that the child receives its soul from God at the moment of its conception, and thus has its full human dignity at this point. I fully believe that, and have no doubt the priest does as well.

You have little basis for your accusation. The only one I can think of, and you would have to be the one to decide if its accurate or not, is that you haven’t had a lot of exposure to those of us who think this way. While you can disagree all you like it is probably not reasonable for you to assume you know this priest believes or does not believe.

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[AKA Elena]

Well, aside from the fact that none of the other of the millions of embryos being destroyed each year seemed to merit his individual attention, my suspicion is that if this particular embryo had been carried successfully to term, his outrage (and everyone else's) would have been all the greater.

Sadly, since the statement is in regard to this embryo, and there is a great number represented on FR, who value all human life and argue for its Natural completion from birth to the grave, I find that your statement, Physicist (a FReeper I really respect), to be disingenuous in the extreme!

None of us know what the result would have been -- but those of us who choose to value ALL human life, and feel the outrage and violation of Natural Law here in this particular set of announcements denouncing this new affront to LIFE ... through the "creation of human life" ... as well as the cavalier disposal of this human life -- to be a single item for our address.

This scientist and his company and others have begun, in earnest, the natural precursor to more rampant destruction of Human Life.

Perhaps we MAY be treating this as a huge issue (which it is for us), but surely from any point of view you can understand how we are offended by this experiment with life and how we must view it as just another step toward the further degradation of all life, of God's Law and Natural Law (one and the same).

This is NOT a separate issue, but another phase of the same issue ... the sanctity of LIFE.

This gross experiment further proves the reproductivity of cells -- thereby supporting the ongoing and successful exploration of already born ... stem cell research.

Since I have a grandchild who is alive because of a bone marrow donation (stem cell) from an unknown adult donor ... I won't even answer any "reasoned need" argument for "build and destroy" -- or "create to kill".

[SoothingDave]

It's the cloning technique, much more than the final disposition of the embryo, that offends his sensibilities. When he says, "From the moment of conception, the embryo is invested with human dignity and blessed with the gift of life," I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

Sorry, Physicist, I usually respect your opinion, but you are off base here. The "final disposition" as you put it has no bearing. The point is that we are not to treat human beings (even in embryo form) as our playthings. Period. It is ghastly. It is experimenting with human life. Without the permission of the human subject.

SD

[Physicist]

What on earth do you base that on?

On the fact that of all the embryos destroyed in the world, this is the one for which we hear him. That suggests to me that his motivation is an objection to the cloning itself.

That you can’t understand how someone could hold such a view? I can assure you there are indeed people who believe this.

For ordinary people, yes. For clones, no. Most people who are anti-abortion would have been horrified to see this baby carried to term. Mark my words, we'll see violent protests from many people once cloned humans are born, with the pro-life activists in the van.

[SoothingDave]

Most people who are anti-abortion would have been horrified to see this baby carried to term. Mark my words, we'll see violent protests from many people once cloned humans are born, with the pro-life activists in the van.

Perhaps you don't understand the main current of pro-life thought. "Life is to be protected from conception to natural death." Experiments with cloning are just as much an abomination as other "reproductive technology." I think it is horrible for folks to use IVF to make embryos, but that doesn't mean that I don't want those embryos, once created, to be born.

It's a consistent mind set. It's not hard to fathom.

SD