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1 posted on 11/26/2001 8:55:36 AM PST by butter pecan fan
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To: butter pecan fan
What are the statistics for years way back when, when almost EVERY house had a gun?
Is it possible that the breakdown of the family and education have more to do with this than the amount of guns?
2 posted on 11/26/2001 9:02:53 AM PST by Just another Joe
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To: butter pecan fan
And how many of these "children" killed by gunshot - including accidents and suicides - are old enough to legally drive? To legally join the Army?

Centers for Disease Control and National Safety Council statistics suggest almost all! Their statistics find almost nobody under age 15 killed by gunshot in the U.S.; in other words, "child gun deaths" mainly mean kids in their late teens!

Scandals of antigun politicians and activists!

4 posted on 11/26/2001 9:08:23 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: butter pecan fan; .45MAN
For the other side, please click on this link to an article posted on the Website, Kep and Bear Arms:

Some of the "Children" Killed By Guns

It really sickens me the way gun-grabbers skew numbers for their benefit. Just read Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime" for the REAL meaning of statistics and how they are mis-used.

5 posted on 11/26/2001 9:09:09 AM PST by dansangel
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To: butter pecan fan
about 75 American children

Let me guess. A 24 year-old is considered a "child" in this statistic.

7 posted on 11/26/2001 9:10:23 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: butter pecan fan
Everyday, about 75 American children are shot. Most recover –- 15 do not.

Utterly false; debunked years ago. The number correlates to over 27,000 "children" ayear being shot, withnearly 5,500 children a year being killed. CDC reports nothing like this.

The majority of fatal accidents involving a firearm occur in the home.

The majority of fatal accidents involving cars occur on the roads. Totally irrelevant to anything.

Gunshot wounds are the single most common cause of death for women in the home, accounting for nearly half of all homicides and 42 percent of suicides.

Who in the heck is out compiling numbers of "deaths in the home"? Without stating what percentage of deaths occur "in the home" as opposed to everywhere else, this means nothing at all.

An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

This is twisted lawyer speak. This statistic seems to want to correlate suicide by any means with gun ownership. Means nothing at all.

More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Not likely. almost all "Teenage boys" who are killed by gunfire are gang bangers. Hardly the type who legally possess guns.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

Again, unlikely.

10 posted on 11/26/2001 9:16:00 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: butter pecan fan
Additional article:

What boys do when they find a gun

13 posted on 11/26/2001 9:25:28 AM PST by butter pecan fan
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To: butter pecan fan
First the gun does not kill, liberals and illegal immigrants kill, the WTC proves it after 8 years of liberal rule in Washington. A freeper once mentioned that my keyboard here is not responsible for my spelling mistakes. Indeed.

Gavin De Becker, the messiaha of beat up boys in America who claims most women are victims of attacks by men when we know that is a lie because women repeatedly are allowed in our culture to slap men, on TV and wherever.

Gavin makes rules with statistics while statistics can be tweaked by cultural response to assaults and firearms usage. Since culture views shot kids as bad, it will be reported. Since culture views deterred attacks with guns as good, it never is reported. How many kids were saved by a guns in the home? No one really knows and Gavin ignores it. How many women were saved from abuse when their men did not slap them back after beings slapped by them? We will never know it but it is quite usual, probably much more usual than men beating women because those get reported.

Secondly statistics are not a good reason to make a law or advocate a position since stats are just stats, not true analytical evaluation of a phenomenom. Airplane accident statistics do not tell whether planes are safe or not, only the laws of the air and their verified predictive abilities tell whether planes are safe.

Inherently Guns are safer than planes and cars because they are not self propelled devices and hence are definitely more controlable. What next? Ban cars because most people die driving their own cars? So the government should drive cars because then we would not die from what we own? What a stupid reasoning. This reasoning is even stupider when we realize we own cars to make money, not defend our own lives, hence we kill ourselves for no reasons at all in cars, according to De Becker ans socialites. Beware.

Gavin de Becker as a safety expert is a total a$$. He is no engineer, he is a crytal ball watcher, because, when he was beat continuously by his dad, he "learned" to survive by instinctively predicting when he was going to be hurt, treated like a beast, he is still a beast and has not come out from his reliance on predictive abilities at the expense of analytical look back and true repent. In fact he survived by sheer luck but still insist in his insanity that his instinct and predictive psychic abilities saved him... "sure, Gavin, nice Gavin, why don't you go out and take some fresh air Gavin"

Last but not least, it is abuse and not ownership that should be punished, Gavin better get his a$$ out of my sight if I crossed it, because it is enough that he has removed reasonable doubt against men like me in favor of women, that I am sick and tired of him removing reasonable doubt from a gun owner but not someone piercing their nose abusively with rings.

Oh, and I might add, why was Gavin beat up all the time? He did not have a gun to kill his attacker, that is why, and now he tries to tell us to live a successful life like he did when we know he is lucky because 99% of people that lived his life never actualy lived it.

Gavin is another false prophet, with false cures, without repent, just like his dad, never repenting, abusing the people the way his dad did. He is a psycho selling dangerous cures to people.

14 posted on 11/26/2001 9:30:15 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: butter pecan fan
The Shocking Truth About Children and Gun Accidents

"Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media.

In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642.

More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings.

The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence."

(from "Gun Control: Myths and Realities," Cato Institute commentary by David Lampo)

15 posted on 11/26/2001 9:30:41 AM PST by philetus
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To: butter pecan fan
What %kids

What %criminal gang members chosen by the lax nature of juvenile law to be on the front lines that are our streets in our other war, the drug WAR.

20 posted on 11/26/2001 9:37:41 AM PST by PaxMacian
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To: butter pecan fan
Yep. Further proof that statistical data can be altered to prove any point that a person/organization wants to make!
23 posted on 11/26/2001 9:45:03 AM PST by Destructor
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To: butter pecan fan
You forgot the

Lying-Puke Barf-Alert!


27 posted on 11/26/2001 9:51:02 AM PST by Fixit
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To: butter pecan fan
More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

A visit to the CDC website tells that teenage "boys" (age 13-17) are represented as follows:

MV Traffic 1,810

Firearm accident 117

Firearm homicide or "legal intervention" 756

Firearm suicide 513

Total deaths 2683

Thus, 1386 died from gunshots, including criminals shot by cops, while 1810 died in motor vehicle accidents. The first statement is a lie, as is the second.

Most of the rest could probably be shown to similarly deceptive.

35 posted on 11/26/2001 10:10:27 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: butter pecan fan
An Army of Gun Lies

"The assertions about “X children per day” are based on counting older teenagers, or even people in their early twenties, as “children.” The claims are true only if you count a 19-year-old drug dealer who is shot by a competitor, or an 18-year-old armed robber who is shot by a policeman, as “a child killed by a gun.” As for actual children (14 years and under), the daily death rate is 2.6. For children ten and under, it’s 0.4 per day—far lower than the number of children who are killed by automobiles, drowning, or many other causes."

36 posted on 11/26/2001 10:11:59 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: butter pecan fan
Nearly 500 children and teenagers each year are killed in gun-related accidents.

About 1,500 commit suicide.

According to the CDC (see above post for link), even if we include adults age 18 and 19, the number killed in firearms accidents is only half their claim: 262. The number of firearm suicides is only 1241.

If they wanted to be honest, and include only minors not yet of voting and military age, the numbers are 202 firearms accidental deaths, and 648 firearm suicides.

37 posted on 11/26/2001 10:16:27 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: butter pecan fan
Troll alert.
butter pecan fan member since October 7th, 2001

39 posted on 11/26/2001 10:20:05 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: butter pecan fan
In 1994, every day, 16 children age 19 and under were killed with guns and 64 were wounded in this country

Now if I am not mistaken that's 5840 children killed and 23,360 wounded. If this were true there would be no guns in the hands of any civilian in this country....Pahhhhhhhhhlease People, Start reading the right documents

40 posted on 11/26/2001 10:26:37 AM PST by .45MAN
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To: butter pecan fan
Twenty-nine percent of high-school boys have at least one firearm; most are intended for hunting and sporting purposes. Six percent say they carry a gun outside the home. The National Institute of Justice, 1998

From which I deduce that 23% of high-school boys hunt and discharge weapons for sport inside their homes.

I live in a town of approx. 20K people, in a region that is charitably regarded as "rustic". I believe it is one of the five poorest counties in the nation, it is chock full of guns, and we had what I believe was our second homocide of the year last week...both were stabbings.

43 posted on 11/26/2001 10:36:54 AM PST by gundog
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To: butter pecan fan
Everyday, about 75 American children are shot. Most recover –- 15 do not.

"Children up to age 19, including legal adults who can marry, drive, and die for their country. Most of these "children" are gang-bangers killing each other in turf wars. When the police shoot and kill fleeing teens, these deaths are included in this total.

The majority of fatal accidents involving a firearm occur in the home.

The majority of car accidents also occur very close to home - guess we should ban homes, they are so dangerous. A hunter might spend some few days or a week in a year hunting, compared to the other 358 days at home. Where do think the accidents are most likely to occur?

Gunshot wounds are the single most common cause of death for women in the home, accounting for nearly half of all homicides and 42 percent of suicides.

Murder is illegal, and suicides are a personal choice. Neither has to do with guns. Suicide is twice as common in Japan where guns are banned - people there tend to drown themselves. Murder happens where guns don't exist, too.

An adolescent is twice as likely to commit suicide if a gun is kept in the home.

This "fact" confuses correlation with causation - is it because of the gun that the suicide occurred, or is it because people who wish to commit suicides decide to get guns, just for this purpose? This "fact" doesn't say.

More teenage boys in America die from gunfire than from car accidents.

Most of these teenage boys, again, are gang members killed over turf wars. For the typical American household, with a typical American teenage male - that male is more likely to die in a car accident than from a gun shot, because the typical teenage male isn't a gang member. However, this "fact" is stated in such a way as to confuse this issue.

Gunshot wounds are now the leading cause of death for teenage boys in America (white, African-American, urban, suburban).

--- all combined. But when you break them down, is this still true? Let's see the numbers. (And, don't include suicide since they will still kill themselves if they really, really want to anyway.)

Researchers at familyeducation.com have collected the following statistics on kids and guns:

Twenty-nine percent of high-school boys have at least one firearm; most are intended for hunting and sporting purposes. Six percent say they carry a gun outside the home. The National Institute of Justice, 1998

And nearly 100% of them own books, and carry them outside the home. Researchers are still puzzled why high-school boys like to exercise the First Amendment so much more than the Second Amendment.

From 1980 to 1997, gun killings by young people 18 to 24 increased from about 5,000 to more than 7,500. During the same period, gun killings by people 25 and older fell by almost half, to about 5,000. The US Department of Justice

The War on (some) Drugs provided lots of buisness opportunities to America'a diverse youths. For some reason, they can't all just get along, especially when huge drug profits are at stake.

There are about 60 million handguns in the United States. About 2 to 3 million new and used handguns are sold each year. US Senate Statistics

"That every man be armed..." Well on the way, I see!

Nearly 500 children and teenagers each year are killed in gun-related accidents. About 1,500 commit suicide. Nearly 7,000 violent crimes are committed each year by juveniles using guns they found in their own homes. Senator Herb Kohl, sponsor of the safety lock measure.

Education can reduce or eliminate the accidents; why do so-called "safety" groups oppose programs like the NRA's Eddie Eagle? Suicides are personal choice, and don't depend on guns anyway. As mentioned, Japan has twice the suicide rate of America, but they drown themselves rather than shooting themselves. (In other words: "Studies show that countries which disarm their citizens experience twice the suicide rates of countries that trust their citizens with arms.")

In 1994, every day, 16 children age 19 and under were killed with guns and 64 were wounded in this country. National Center for Health and Statistics, 1996

"Children" 19 and under who can vote, marry, and serve in the Army. And the number 16 became 13, and then 12, then 11, then 10. However, the research finds the old number, not the latest one. Nothing like cherry-picking your data for the greatest emotional impact, is there?

50 posted on 11/26/2001 10:44:41 AM PST by coloradan
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To: butter pecan fan
Might want to try this link for 1999 stats.

National Vital Statistics Report

53 posted on 11/26/2001 10:58:02 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: butter pecan fan
Most of that stuff is all debunked here at the Tennesee Law Review by Don Kates.
55 posted on 11/26/2001 11:07:57 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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