Operation Magic Lantern (FBI Now Targets Christian Defenders of Constitution )

To: WileyCoyote22

I'm not talking about any Project Megiddo.

Suggest you brush up your reading comprehension skillz.

181 posted on 11/27/2001 10:51:07 AM PST by Plummz

To: The Grammarian

Actually, some Christians do. They're called "Premillenialists."

Or the "Christian Identity" kooks. I was talking about real Christians.

182 posted on 11/27/2001 11:06:55 AM PST by Cultural Jihad

To: OKCSubmariner; LSJohn; malador; golitely

Looks like if we didn't belive in the Constitution and were atheists, we'd be considered gut Americans by the Republicans. And these are the "conservatives?" Man, what would we have to do to please the Democrats?

184 posted on 11/27/2001 7:27:52 PM PST by Judge Parker

Wow from the looks of that pamphlet -- I would fit the terrorist profile (love the constitution, consider big federal gov't to be a possible threat to it) and also HILLARY CLINTON is a terrorist (Marxist/Leninist). They just covered the whole spectrum of Americans it appears, from we who love the country to she who hates it. I think the FBI needs to pull the Jack Webb out of their rump.

186 posted on 11/28/2001 4:11:37 AM PST by GussiedUp

To: OKCSubmariner

187 posted on 11/28/2001 2:27:56 PM PST by Uncle Bill

To: OKCSubmariner

188 posted on 11/28/2001 3:46:18 PM PST by Uncle Bill

To: OKCSubmariner

Judge Demands Documents on FBI Computer Spy System

FBI runs Trojan horse
"The discovery comes only weeks after the Bureau made a motion to suppress evidence about the use of similar technology in the recent US versus Nicodemo Scarfo case. The FBI claimed that releasing information about the technology would jeopardise current as well as future investigations."

FBI wants to keep technology secret
"The FBI is trying to keep secret technical details of a keystroke-logging program it used to catch a Mob loan shark. A mandate from a New Jersey judge calling for a report "detailing how the key logger device functions", by 31 August, has been claimed by the US government to be so sensitive that if revealed, "national security" could be at risk.

The FBI is now seeking to invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA), so that details are not supplied." CIPA

Govt. Invokes National Security Law In Mob Hacking Case

FBI keeps its bugging secrets

When invoked, CIPA permits federal prosecutors to take extraordinary steps to protect classified information, including barring observers from the courtroom, withholding documents from the defense attorneys and moving the trial to "the facilities of another United States government agency" if the courthouse is not secure enough.

National Homeland Security Initiated Two Years Ago

EXECUTIVE ORDER 13083 - Effective Date May 14, 1998
eo13083
EXECUTIVE                                                                                                EO 13083
ORDER                                                                      Effective Date May 14, 1998
_______________________________________________________________________

Responsible Office: Z\ Office of Policy and Plans

Subject: Federalism

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to guarantee the division of governmental responsibilities, embodied in the Constitution, between the Federal Government and the States that was intended by the Framers and application of those principles by the Executive departments and agencies in the formulation and implementation of policies, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order:

        (a) ìStateî or ìStatesî refer to the States of the United States of America, individually or
collectively, and, where relevant, to State governments, including units of local government and other political subdivisions established by the States.

        (b) ìPolicies that have federalism implicationsî refers to Federal regulations, proposed
legislation, and other policy statements or actions that have substantial, direct effects on the States or on the relationship, or the distribution of power and responsibilities, between the Federal Government and the States.

        (c) ìAgencyî means any authority of the United States that is an ìagencyî under 44 U.S.C.
3502(l), other than those considered to be independent regulatory agencies, as defined in 44
U.S.C. 3502(5).

Sec. 2. Fundamental Federalism Participles In formulating and implementing policies that have federalism implications, agencies shall be guided by the following fundamental federalism principles:

        (a) The structure of government established by the Constitution is premised upon a system
of checks and balances.

        (b) The Constitution created a Federal Government of supreme, but limited, powers. The
sovereign powers not granted to the Federal Government are reserved to the people or to the
States, unless prohibited to the States by the Constitution.

        (c) Federalism reflects the principle that dividing power between the Federal Government
and the States serves to protect individual liberty. Preserving State authority provides an essential balance to the power of the Federal Government, while preserving the supremacy of Federal law provides an essential balance to the power of the States.

        (d) The people of the States are at liberty, subject only to the limitations in the Constitution
itself or in Federal law, to define the moral, political, and legal character of their lives.

        (e) Our constitutional system encourages a healthy diversity in the public policies adopted
by the people of the several States according to their own conditions, needs, and desires. States and local governments are often uniquely situated to discern the sentiments of the people and to govern accordingly.

        (f) Effective public policy is often achieved when there is competition among the several
States in the fashioning of different approaches to public policy issues. The search for enlightened public policy is often furthered when individual States and local governments are free to experiment with a variety of approaches to public issues. Uniform, national approaches to public policy problems can inhibit the creation of effective solutions to those problems.

        (g) Policies of the Federal Government should recognize the responsibility of-and should
encourage opportunities for-States, local governments, private associations, neighborhoods,
families, and individuals to achieve personal, social, environmental, and economic objectives
through cooperative effort.

Sec. 3. Federalism Policymaking Criteria. In addition to adhering to the fundamental federalism principles set forth in section 2 of this order, agencies shall adhere, to the extent permitted by law, to the following criteria when formulating and implementing policies that have federalism implications:

        (a) There should be strict adherence to constitutional principles. Agencies should closely
examine the constitutional and statutory authority supporting any Federal action that would limit
the policymaking discretion of States and local governments, and should carefully assess the
necessity for such action.

        (b) Agencies may limit the policymaking discretion of States and local governments only
after determining that there is constitutional and legal authority for the action.

        (c) With respect to Federal statutes and regulations administered by States and local
governments, the Federal Government should grant States and local governments the maximum administrative discretion Possible. Any Federal oversight of such State and local administration should not unnecessarily intrude on State and local discretion.

        (d) It is important to recognize the distinction between matters of national or multi-state
scope (which may justify Federal action) and matters that are merely common to the States (which may not justify Federal action because individual States, acting individually or together, may effectively deal with them). Matters of national or multi-state scope that justify Federal action may arise in a variety of circumstances, including.

        (1) When the matter to be addressed by Federal action occurs interstate as opposed to being contained within one Stateís boundaries.

        (2) When the source of the matter to be addressed occurs in a State different from the State (or States) where a significant amount of the harm occurs.

        (3) When there is a need for uniform national standards.

        (4) When decentralization increases the costs of government thus imposing additional
burdens on the taxpayer.

        (5) When States have not adequately protected individual rights and liberties.

        (6) When States would be reluctant to impose necessary regulations because of fears that
regulated business activity will relocate to other States.

        (7) When placing regulatory authority at the State or local level would undermine regulatory
goals because high costs or demands for specialized expertise will effectively place the regulatory matter beyond the resources of State authorities.

        (8) When the matter relates to Federally owned or managed property or natural resources,
trust obligations, or international obligations.

        (9) When the matter to be regulated significantly or uniquely affects Indian tribal
governments.

Sec. 4. Consultation. (a) Each agency shall have an effective process to permit elected officials and other representatives of State and local governments to provide meaningful and timely input in the development of regulatory policies that have federalism implications.

        (b) To the extent practicable and permitted by law, no agency shall promulgate any
regulation that is not required by statute, that has federalism implications, and that imposes
substantial direct compliance costs on States and local governments, unless:

        (1) funds necessary to pay the direct costs incurred by the State or local government in
complying with the regulation are provided by the Federal Government; or

        (2) the agency, prior to the formal promulgation of the regulation,

        (A) in a separately identified portion of the preamble to the regulation as it is to be issued in
the Federal Register, provides to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget a
description of the extent of the agencyís prior consultation with representatives of affected States and local governments, a summary of the nature of their concerns, and the agencyís position supporting the need to issue the regulation; and

        (B) makes available to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget any written
communications submitted to the agency by States or local governments.

Sec. 5. Increasing Flexibility for State and Local Waivers. (a) Agencies shall review the
processes under which States and local governments apply for waivers of statutory and regulatory requirements and take appropriate steps to streamline those processes.

        (b) Each agency shall, to the extent practicable and permitted by law, consider any
application by a State or local government for a waiver of statutory or regulatory requirements in connection with any program administered by that agency with a general view toward increasing opportunities for utilizing flexible policy approaches at the State or local level in cases in which the proposed waiver is consistent with applicable Federal policy objectives and is otherwise appropriate.

        (c) Each agency shall, to the extent practicable and permitted by law, render a decision upon a complete application for a waiver within 120 days of receipt of such application by the agency. If the application for a waiver is not granted, the agency shall provide the applicant with timely written notice of the decision and the reasons therefor.

        (d) This section applies only to statutory or regulatory requirements that are discretionary
and subject to waiver by the agency.

Sec. 6. Independent Agencies. Independent regulatory agencies are encouraged to comply with the provisions of this order.

Sec. 7. General Provisions. (a) This order is intended only to improve the internal management of the executive branch and is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or equity by a party against the United States, its agencies or instrumentalities, its officers or employees, or any other person.

        (b) This order shall supplement but not supersede the requirements contained in Executive
Order 12866 (ìRegulatory Planning and Reviewî), Executive Order 12988 (ìCivil justice
Reformî), and OMB Circular A-19.

        (c) Executive Order 12612 of October 26, 1987, and Executive Order 12875 of October 26,
1993, are revoked.

        (d) The consultation and waiver provisions in sections 4 and 5 of this order shall
complement the Executive order entitled, ìConsultation and Coordination with Indian Tribal
Governments,î being issued on this day.

        (e) This order shall be effective 90 days after the date of this order.

                                                              William J. Clinton
                                                                           /s/
THE WHITE HOUSE,
May 14, 1998.

Presidential Decision Directive #62 'COMBATING TERRORISM' - (PDD 62)

Presidential Decision Directive #63 - 'Critical Infrastructure Protection' - (PDD 63

Side-by-side Comparison: Reagan EO 12612 / Clinton EO 13083

George W. Bush Is "Moving On."

Memo

"We are the only ones who know what is good for the country, and we are the only ones who can do anything about it."
FBI Special Agent Joseph G. Deegan in 1977 - Source

Notice also, that the FBI is too stupid to know that this is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, not a Democracy. Actually, we both know that's not true. They are highly skilled, and "purposely" destroying the CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, helping to facilitate a DEMOCRACY(mob rule), to usher in the One World Government to kill, steal and destroy. Isn't it enlightening knowing that there are mobs of people on this site that have never been happier thinking that "things" have never been better? LOL! Wait until the boot catches up with them. They think they'll have to be doing something wrong to feel the boot. LOL!

They Know Not What They Do
"In a democracy in general, we can't have the police everywhere," said Michael Vatis, director of the FBI's National Infrastructure Protection Center, which guards against computer attacks by terrorists, foreign agents and teen hackers."

Republics and Democracies

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It"

"to provide a cure for the evils under which the United States labored; that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and trials of democracy...."
Edmund Randolph - May 31, 1787

"The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want [that is, do not lack] virtue; but are the dupes of pretended patriots."
Elbridge Gerry - 1787

"It had been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience had proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."
Alexander Hamilton - June 21, 1788

"We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy."
Alexander Hamilton

"Remember, Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself! There never was a democracy that ‘did not commit suicide.’"
Samuel Adams

"… democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
James Madison

Madison and Hamilton and Jay and their compatriots of the convention prepared and adopted a constitution in which they nowhere even mentioned the word democracy, not because they were not familiar with such a form of government, but because they were. The word democracy had not occurred in the Declaration of Independence, and does not appear in the constitution of a single one of our fifty states — which constitutions are derived mainly from the thinking of the Founding Fathers of the Republic — for the same reason. They knew all about democracies, and if they had wanted one for themselves and their posterity, they would have founded one.

15 percent on the right are so glued into their ideology that rational thought is impossible. These are the people who will make any excuse to avoid seeing Bill Clinton for the corrupting presence that he is, and these are the people who will support George W. Bush no matter what he does

189 posted on 11/28/2001 7:10:15 PM PST by Uncle Bill

To: OKCSubmariner

Bill Clinton and Janet Reno are the culprits who started the Christian fundies are terrorists with the FBI. It was just after the OKC bombing and the Waco massacre. Bill Clinton said his only ememies were rightwing Christians.
Janet Reno started the FBI training about Christians and Militia groups. There was even a brochure going out with all of this on it.

190 posted on 11/28/2001 7:23:13 PM PST by ladyinred

To: Sidebar Moderator

Actually, I think is the post (173) with the bad tags that is causing the trouble on my self-search. No biggiew, it'll pprobably scroll off soon enough anyway.

191 posted on 12/08/2001 3:12:57 PM PST by Plummz

To: OKCSubmariner

Antivirus firms: FBI loophole is out of line

Antivirus firms: FBI loophole is out of line

Reuters
December 11, 2001

Antivirus software vendors said Monday they don't want to create a loophole in their security products to let the FBI or other government agencies use a virus to eavesdrop on the computer communications of suspected criminals.

Under a project code-named "Magic Lantern," the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation is creating an e-mail-borne virus or Trojan horse that hides itself on the computer and captures all keystrokes made, including passwords that could be used to read encrypted mail.

Despite subsequent reports to the contrary, officials at Symantec and Network Associates said they had no intention of voluntarily modifying their products to satisfy the FBI. Spokesmen at two other computer security companies, Japan-based Trend Micro and the U.S. subsidiary of U.K.-based Sophos made similar statements.

All four antivirus companies said they had not contacted or been contacted by the U.S. government on the matter.

The FBI declined to confirm or deny the report about "Magic Lantern," when it was first published by MSNBC and a spokesman was not available for comment Monday.

"We're in the business of providing a virus-free environment for our users and we're not going to do anything to compromise that security," said Tony Thompson of Network Associates.

"Symantec's first priority is to protect our customers from malicious and illegal attacks," Symantec Chief Executive John W. Thompson said in a statement. "We have no intention of creating or leaving a hole in our software that might compromise that security."

If antivirus vendors were to leave a hole for an FBI-created Trojan horse program, malicious hackers would try to exploit the hole too, experts said.

"If you leave the weakness for the FBI, you leave it for everybody," said Fred Cohen, an independent security expert and digital forensics professor at the University of New Haven.

From the industry perspective, leaving a hole in antivirus software would erode public confidence and damage the reputation of the vendor, sending customers to competing companies, the vendors said.

The government would have to convince all antivirus vendors to cooperate or the plan wouldn't work, since those not cooperating would have a market advantage and since they all share information, a Symantec spokeswoman said.

"The thought that you would be able to convince the industry as a whole to do this is kind of naive," she said.

Symantec and Networks Associates, both of which have investments in China, would not jeopardize their footings in that market, said Rob Rosenberger, editor of Vmyths.com, a Web site that debunks virus hoaxes.

"If (the Chinese) thought that the company was a tool of the CIA, China would stop using those products in critical environments," Rosenberger said. "It is in the best interest of antivirus vendors not to heed the call of the FBI."

"We always try to cooperate with the authorities when it's appropriate. Having said that, our No. 1 goal is to protect our customers," said Barbara Woolf of Trend Micro. "I've heard reports that the government is upset this got out and is going back to the drawing board."

Appeasing the U.S. government would be difficult for vendors that have parent companies and customers outside the United States, they said.

"If the laws of the land were to change to permit this kind of activity, then we would abide by the law," said David Hughes, president of Sophos' U.S. subsidiary.

But "how would a vendor provide protection for customers outside of the specific jurisdiction?" Hughes said. "If we were to do this for the U.S. government we'd also have to do it for the government of any other nation that would want to do something similar."

192 posted on 12/14/2001 1:01:42 AM PST by Uncle Bill

To: Uncle Bill; LSJohn; Judge Parker; golitely; Plummz; It'salmosttolate; Fred Mertz; thinden; t-shirt

see reply #192 from Uncle Bill:

The fact that the USG has types from the Bush administration (Mueller especially is pushing this along with AShcroft) that even tried to get these Antvirus manufactureres to do this is an outrage that shows a world government enslavement attempt for contol and to eliminate our privacy and freedoms without adequate safeguards.

And this administration and Democrats and Repubs of like mind will keep trying until they succeed, until they find an antivirus manufacturer who will put the loophole in (a corrupt elected official like Hilary or Schumer may even start a business themselves providing loopholes for the FBI) even if it means the USG putting the other reputable manufactureres out of business by lawsuits and repressive legislation.

THe USG will use the same tactics to get what they want as they are using trying to compel/sue/destroy/replace gun manufacturers.

The spirit of AntiChrist is now on the world stage and in the minds of many of our deluded publicly elected officials and FBI and DOJ bureaucrats. They care not about unalienable, God given rights or the Constitution (Ooops, does this mean that the FBI will now put me and anyone else who shares my concerns on the FBI's super Patriot hit list because we would dare verbally defend our Constitutional rights against oppression and world government mind sets???).

193 posted on 12/14/2001 7:42:58 AM PST by OKCSubmariner

To: OKCSubmariner

"We are potentially the most dangerous agency in the country,"
FBI Director Louis Freeh - testimony before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime on June 5, 1997

194 posted on 12/14/2001 11:56:35 PM PST by Uncle Bill

To: OKCSubmariner

'having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof'

Sure sounds like humanism to me.

195 posted on 12/15/2001 12:05:19 AM PST by Pistias

Man, that Putin looks evil.

196 posted on 12/15/2001 12:10:06 AM PST by Pistias

"Man, that Putin looks evil"

FREEH SAYS RUSSIAN MAFIA POSES NO THREAT

Thank goodness the FBI is watching out for us. Hehehehe.

Whatever you do don't defend the constitution, THEN YOU'RE A THREAT TO THE FBI.

"Defending Our Constitution"

197 posted on 12/15/2001 12:45:22 AM PST by Uncle Bill

To: OKCSubmariner

Fort Meade has been monitoring the phones for years both internally and externally. Why does it all of a sudden bother everyone? There are lots of ways that this has been circumvented, and there always will be.

PGP Phone uses a voice encryption similar to the encryption the popular PGP mail program uses. Also available are portable scramblers for use on any phone, they come in pairs.

So far all the hysteria is from the liberals, with some echos on the right(mostly concern for abuse of a future admin.) The liberals are frothing at the mouth over this now. That has to make you wonder, what are they afraid of?

198 posted on 12/15/2001 8:04:25 AM PST by PeaceBeWithYou

To: PeaceBeWithYou,Uncle Bill,LSJohn,Judge PArker,roughrider,thinden,ratcat,t-shirt,rubbertramp,Walla

Are you trying to tell us in reply #198 that what we did not know (or now still do not know) won't hurt us?

Are we to trust bureaucrats in the the government who say what they are doing is alright because they tell us they are in the government and know what is best??

When you tell us that what they have been doing has not hurt us, it does not help. In fact your reasoning makes the conduct of those in government look worse to me.

It is much worse than you want us to believe because they did not tell us they were snopping on all of us innocent civilians (presumed guitly until proven innocent by their corrupt definition??)and more importantly THEY DID NOT ASK OUR PERMISSION in violation of the Constitution and our unalienable, God given rights of privacy.

From the Holy Bible: The AntiChrist will destroy wonderfully by means of (false) peace.

Do not follow the fake reasoning and the promised false peace of the AntiChrist that lulls into a false sense of security because his system says it listens to everything we say to protect us (the false system says) from ourselves.

I pray at Christmas, God's Peace will be with you and in your heart.

199 posted on 12/15/2001 8:51:39 AM PST by OKCSubmariner

To: OKCSubmariner

I believe in the Constitution. I think the UN is a subversive organization. I believe in the truth of Revelation which makes me a member of a the doomsday cult, Christianity.

I better not forget my driver's license.

I believe this Operation Magic Lantern is operational now and is capable of overseeing about 1/5 of the world's electronic communications...I read that recently...have to run..

200 posted on 12/15/2001 10:07:28 AM PST by rubbertramp

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