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To: PeaceBeWithYou,Uncle Bill,LSJohn,Judge PArker,roughrider,thinden,ratcat,t-shirt,rubbertramp,Walla
Are you trying to tell us in reply #198 that what we did not know (or now still do not know) won't hurt us?

Are we to trust bureaucrats in the the government who say what they are doing is alright because they tell us they are in the government and know what is best??

When you tell us that what they have been doing has not hurt us, it does not help. In fact your reasoning makes the conduct of those in government look worse to me.

It is much worse than you want us to believe because they did not tell us they were snopping on all of us innocent civilians (presumed guitly until proven innocent by their corrupt definition??)and more importantly THEY DID NOT ASK OUR PERMISSION in violation of the Constitution and our unalienable, God given rights of privacy.

From the Holy Bible: The AntiChrist will destroy wonderfully by means of (false) peace.

Do not follow the fake reasoning and the promised false peace of the AntiChrist that lulls into a false sense of security because his system says it listens to everything we say to protect us (the false system says) from ourselves.

I pray at Christmas, God's Peace will be with you and in your heart.

199 posted on 12/15/2001 8:51:39 AM PST by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
I believe in the Constitution. I think the UN is a subversive organization. I believe in the truth of Revelation which makes me a member of a the doomsday cult, Christianity.

I better not forget my driver's license.

I believe this Operation Magic Lantern is operational now and is capable of overseeing about 1/5 of the world's electronic communications...I read that recently...have to run..

200 posted on 12/15/2001 10:07:28 AM PST by rubbertramp
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To: OKCSubmariner; Noumenon
Listen to the ones who have tread in the pit of hell, and by God's grace, lived to warn us what tyrants will do when given the opportunity. Tyrants never sleep, and we are in no short supply here in America, as you know. God bless Patrick.

Full Interview with Holocaust Survivor, Theodore Haas
"Anti-gunownership politicians are very dangerous to a free society. Liberty and freedom can only be preserved by an armed citizenry. I see creeping fascism in America, just as in Germany, a drip at a time; a law here, a law there, all supposedly passed to protect the public. Soon you have total enslavement. Too many Americans have forgotten that tyranny often masquerades as doing good. This is the technique the Liberal politicians/Liberal media alliance are using to enslave America.

Q.) What message do you have for ultra-Liberal organizations and individuals who want America disarmed?

A.) Their ignorance is pitiful -- their lives have been too easy. Had they experienced Dachau, they would have a better idea of how precious freedom is. These leftist should leave America. These Sarah Brady types must be educated to under-stand that because we have an armed citizenry, that a dictatorship has not yet happened in America. These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to Liberty than street criminals or foreign spies.

Q.) Some concentration camp survivors are opposed to gun ownership. What message would you like to share with them?

A.) I would like to say, "You cowards; you gun haters, you don't deserve to live in America. Go live in the Soviet Union, if you love gun control so d--- much." It was the stupidity of these naive fools that aided and abetted Hitler's goons and thugs. Anti-gunownership Holocaust survivors insult the memories of all those that needlessly perished for lack of being able to adequately defend themselves.

COMMUNIST EXPLOITATION OF RELIGION - Richard Wurmbrand - From Hell To Heaven
"A little lion in its first days you can play with him just like with a puppy. When he becomes great, only then he is a lion. Yugoslavian communism is this little communism. And American communism a very little one and English communism is a very little one. When they grow, when they can do whatever they will to do, then only we can see them With us, in the beginning, we also had a very nice communism. I have seen in Rumanian Communist demonstrations signs with the slogan, "God save the King." I have seen the communist Secretaries of State making great crosses, showing themselves as being on the side of religion and making compliments to religion and bowing to religion and saying they are Democrats. In the beginning, they have put in prison party members who said that the agriculture must be collectivized. And they have gone together with the bourgeois party, with the Liberal Party of Tatorescu and with other Democrats.

I have seen in the West Social Democrats collaborate with them. In Rumania, I have seen dying Social Democrats in the same cell with me; they died. Communists in Rumania, too, were nice until they had the whole power in hand. When they had the whole power in hand, they have done things exactly as in Russia, and so they will do everywhere. There is no difference.

...In Philadelphia there was a great meeting. A pastor with clerical suit, a Presbyterian pastor, delivered a speech in which he praised Communists and said that Communists are all right and it is stupid to fight against them. I have learned something from the Communists. In a minute - after - the pastor was no more in the pulpit, I was in the pulpit. I said: "Now I will speak about communism. What do you know about communism? And I will show you my credentials, how I have studied communism." I undressed myself to the belt. I did not know that all these bad reporters are there and took pictures. And I showed them my body. "That is what Communists do to Christians, and you, Pastor, why don't you make demonstrations, if you are a Christian and if you have youth in you and vigor, why don't you demonstrate before the Soviet and Rumanian Embassies and the other embassies against torturing Christians?" And then the public, which has been there booed him and shouted to him "Judas."

201 posted on 12/15/2001 10:13:44 AM PST by Uncle Bill
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To: OKCSubmariner
Are you trying to tell us in reply #198 that what we did not know (or now still do not know) won't hurt us?

Nope. I'm telling you that if someone makes a product to prevent something, that there is a reason for it. Do you think it's only our government that spys on us? Or are they spying on those that spy on us? If that happens aren't they spying on us by default? Do agents get overzealous? Are some of them corrupt, or working as double agents? You bet, all these things and more occur. So even if our government stayed out of it all together, would you be safe? Nope.

Hence the ultimate responsibility for your privacy is yours not the government's. We have a God given right to that, but the government can't, nor has it ever been able to protect that for the individual. In short it is and always has been up to you.

Are we to trust bureaucrats in the the government who say what they are doing is alright because they tell us they are in the government and know what is best??

Nope. Government is the absolute worst way to do anything, they never know best, and they amplify the faults of the men that populate them.

When you tell us that what they have been doing has not hurt us, it does not help. In fact your reasoning makes the conduct of those in government look worse to me.

What I am saying is be aware, if someone makes a product to protect you from something, then there is a valid reason for it's existance. PGP is at least 20 years old, I knew a guy using it in 1981 on an XT for his banking transactions in the Carribean. I believe it was version 1.8 or 2.0 so it had been in existance for a while even then.

It is much worse than you want us to believe because they did not tell us they were snopping on all of us innocent civilians (presumed guitly until proven innocent by their corrupt definition??)and more importantly THEY DID NOT ASK OUR PERMISSION in violation of the Constitution and our unalienable, God given rights of privacy.

The government is the least of the threats to your rights. It could really care less, unless it finds you involved in criminal activity.

Have you ever thought this out all the way? How is the government to know who is innocent, or guilty unless they monitor covertly? It's common sense, really! If they are required to alert a "suspect"(whoops that would mean they had already monitored him somehow) that they are going to be monitoring him. What would happen? Nothing, unless he is incredibly stupid. No, it's a given, they must snoop somehow, someway, to determine innocence or guilt. Hopefully, they do so without malice, or motives other than catching bad guys, but that is not always the case, as we live in a world of Freewill with Satan seeking to devour any and all he can.

Thank you for your prayer, it has already been answered, and is daily, no need to wait for Christmas, or even tomorrow. Put your trust in God, he's the only one that is deserving of it, all others are fickle at best, including yourself.

202 posted on 12/15/2001 10:15:55 AM PST by PeaceBeWithYou
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