Posted on 11/22/2001 10:59:38 PM PST by toenail
No, it's not. Zygotic human. Embryonic human. Fetal human. Prenatal human. Newborn human. Infant human. Adolescent human. Adult human. "There's a draft in here" human.
Just different stages of development. And equivocating on whatever you define "baby" as, has nothing to do with the matter.
You can argue until you are blue in the face about killing babies, god's law, protecting the innocent or whatever. It does not matter. You are interferring with the right of another humand being whom you have no right to interfere with.
So far, this country's law have stood on the side of right and sanity on this issue. You are in the minority and you are wrong. Someday you may fool enough people to gain the majority but you will still be wrong.
If you ever do manage to force your perverted will upon women it will signal the return of the dark ages to world. If you want to find the apocolypse your fairy tale bible talks about, look for it to start when your fundamentalist will is forced upon the greatest defenders of freedom that history has ever known: the people of the USA
I fear you! I really do.
Enough said for now.
Let me tell you how much I fear you.
I have voted Republican for 35 years. If I thought that the anti-free choice faction of the Republican party would prevail due a Republican in office, I would change my vote. I would be willing to subject myself to the many evils of a liberal government if that was the only way I could keep free choice. I would grit my teeth and accept more gun control, higher taxes, bigger government and all the rest of the stink of a liberal government to avoid anti-free choice prevailing.
I am not the only conservative that feels this. I know numerous long time republicans who voted for Gore in this last election due to this one issue. I tried to persuade them them that Bush was too smart to allow anti-free choice to prevail. I tried, but I was not successful. I hope I was right.
This one issue could well drag the Republican party into insignificance. After eight years of Klinton and considering that he was running against numb nuts Gore, Bush should have won with a landslide. Bush almost lost. He almost lost because loyal Republicans like me fear the anti-free choice movement.
It is not just this issue of Free Choice that frightens us. It is everything that it stands for. The Free Choice fundamentalists have a long agenda which anti-free choice is the vanguard for. Open the gates to anti-free choice and you open the gates to many unthinkable restrictions of individual freedom.
It is so very sad to see this issue dragging down so many other fine principles with it.
That is exactly what you hope for, is it not? You want to force women into back alley abortions to increase their risk of death.
You would rather kill a functional, adult human woman with friends and family than allow for the death of her unborn fetus of unknown potential. You would rather kill an abortion clinic worker with friends and a family to support then allow for the death of a fetus with unknown potential.
Do not kid yourself. You are pro-death in your pious pro-life stance.
Alas,
Nukem
BTW, you seem to be very concerned with the potential for women's deaths from illegal abortions. You might be surprised to learn that according to the U.S. Bureau of Vital Statistics, there were 39 women who died from illegal abortions in 1972, the year before Roe v. Wade. (Link) Since there are an average of 1,500,000 abortions per year that's 38,461 dead babies per dead mother.
Whatever your delusions may be, the truth is that every baby in a womb (at any point in gestation) is a son or daughter. They aren't the enemy and they don't deserve to die.
Pro-Christ? Don't care.
Pro-Life? He's anything but.
Pro-individual Constitutional rights? Not a chance.
No, PCL wants women to die from illegal abortions, so that abortions can remain legal. I have never, ever heard any of the faux "never again" crowd show any concern at all about the hundreds of women who have died from legal abortions, much less the millions of boys and girls who've been butchered. They don't hold rallies at the CDC chanting about accurate statistics (the CDC covers up abortion-related maternal deaths). They don't ever mention that after Roe v. Wade, those exact same back-alley butchers of babies and their mothers just moved into an office and carried on more of the same. And I have never heard a single one of these oh-so-concerned death-lovers even once call for an end to the illegal abortions that the Internation Planned Parenthood Federation and others commit in other countries. The pro-death camp needs women to die from illegal abortionists.
In the present case, talking of the "contraceptive" patch, their love of death is so strong that they not only want women to choose abortion, but they want women to choose abortion even if they don't know that's what they're doing.
That is a genuinely sick thing to say, and demonstrates you amazing hatred for anyone who blemishes your stance on a mommy's right to control her body.
With ease, you ignore that mommy was INVOLVED in starting a new life, that she is home to this new life for a short period of time and then afterwards, the protector and nourisher of this new life as it grows and grows and continues to grow-both physically and hopefully mentally for much longer.
How is it so easy for you to be so vehemently for the mommy's right to say what happens to her body but to so easily ignore the growing life inside of her? Is it an out of sight out of mind thing with you? Or simply a perverted thought process that simply ignores the responsibility that goes with sexual activity. A baby is a consequence of sexual activity. That's just how it works. It's not magical, it is not something that is DONE to the mommy's body, it is a CHOICE. Mistake or not, once this happens, a new life and its total roadmap, genetically speaking, is determined when dad's sperm enters mom's egg and the chromosomes line up! BOOM! A life is begun. One that may go upwards of ONE HUNDRED YEARS in today's world. And you are so simple, so shallow, so heartless, that all you can think about is MOMMY's CONVENIENCE, MOMMY's BODY???? Never pausing to think of that yet to be formed voice that is in the making, just like your's and mine was at one time?
I'd love to see you debate your principle of a woman's right to abort a baby with God, pcl.
You need to fear those of us who would speak for the child. But you need to fear God more. And ya know, I fear FOR you. Because you are so cold and have bought into this infanticide as a means of birth control so completely, that you have allowed yourself to completely forget about the new life that has begun and the RIGHTS this new baby has. Aren't you GLAD your own mommy did not view you as an inconvenience? Aren't you glad your own mommy put more value on YOU than on herself and her, er, body? Aren't you glad your mommy took responsibility for her actions?
Infanticide is wrong. It is murder. And I don't want any mommy's dying trying to kill their babies. I don't want either dying. And neither has to die, unless some sick human being decides inconvenience to their, er, BODY (oh gish) or whatever the excuse might be, is worth killing the growing human being inside of the womb. Then, of course, the baby dies because people like you don't think this little one has a right to LIVE when juxtaposed against mommy's, er, body! How sick is that?
You keep saying that. It must be hell to live such a fearful existence. But, considering your attitude towards innocent, defenseless unborn children, I fear for you as well.
I have voted Republican for 35 years.
Personally, I don't believe you.
If I thought that the anti-free choice faction of the Republican party would prevail due a Republican in office, I would change my vote.
The GOP platform is absolutely pro-life. The President is pro-life. The Vice-President is pro-life. Every R) congressional leader is pro-life. So, now that you know this fact, maybe you should head for the Evil Party, where you will fit in...although, if I had to guess, you most likely are a Dem already.
I would be willing to subject myself to the many evils of a liberal government if that was the only way I could keep free choice. I would grit my teeth and accept more gun control, higher taxes, bigger government and all the rest of the stink of a liberal government to avoid anti-free choice prevailing.
You are a real piece of work...give away the Bill of Rights, and everything you (and the rest of us) own, for the right to kill unborn babies. Wow. I'm almost speechless.
I am not the only conservative that feels this.
Uhmm...you're not a conservative...it is liberals who base their politics on what they feel.
I know numerous long time republicans who voted for Gore in this last election due to this one issue.
Wrong again. They aren't conservatives either. Not a single conservative in America voted for Gore, at least on purpose.
OK, let's use your new-found sypmapthy for two children who, by the way, were mere fetuses. How's about the 2 babies that were aborted by some other woman? Whoops. The 2 fetuses that were aborted by some other woman. Do you feel the same deep sympathy? Just curious.
And please, tonight, answer in a nice tone. Not snotty like last night. I was NOT being snotty to you but you felt the need to come back at me in that manner. Let's keep it civil, shall we? You have your reputation at stake here.
Uhhhhhhh.......so, uhhhhhh.....who's YOUR god? What do you call him? Where'd you find him? HOW'D you find him? Does he know about you?
DARN IT!!!! I was only trying to use YOUR method of convincing others to come over to YOUR side. And see things YOUR way. Shoot. Back to the drawing board I go.
I have sympathy for the mother who believes that her miscarried babies were human beings. I have respect for the fact the she treated them like human beings in their death.
Just because we differ on the morality of abortion does not mean I should not respect her beliefs. It does not mean that I can not feel sympathy for her when her beliefs cause her pain.
I do not have sympathy when she tries to force her beliefs on 20 year old Margo who made a mistake and now needs an abortion in order fulfill her potential as a brilliant engineer.
Huh? Taking your clothes off and spreading your legs for a man is a MISTAKE???????????????????????????????? (who's Margo?)
And what about my wanting to know who YOUR god is? Please answer.
Nice try. I respect your tactics of trying to think like me. If more people would do that there would be less troubles in the world.
Cheers, pcl -> Grandparent of Cameron, Patrick and John.
KEWL!!!!
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